Bob Carver 180 Mono-blocks perform superbly

There's a good image of the under side wiring on the Carver LLC site > Products > Images > VTA 180 jpegs.

Hi Dracule (or anyone can help me)
I'm ready to replace the coupling caps in mt VTA180 but unsure which ones.
I have pictures taken, would you help locate these .22mF caps?
Please email me at thuan20000@hotmail.com
TIA
Thuan

Thanks Victor.

Hi Yoby,

I only received the Goldpoint attenuators yesterday so will be taking my Bob Carvers in to my tech's workshop next week.

I have not decided if I am going to get the caps upgraded at this stage.
Will have a chat to my tech and see what he thinks.

Cheers.

Hi Vmhf, Which upgraded coupling caps did you decide to go with?

Hi Dracule,
I think there was someone else who mentioned the GL's earlier in this thread.
But I do have quite a few friends with other tubes amps that swear by them.

My HIFI dealer/friend uses top level Lamm mono blocks and has heard my Bobs with the stock Electron, Sovtek and Gold Lions. He noticed the transparency level and refinement of the Bobs the best he ever heard them!

EAT 12AX7's are pricy tubes at around $249 AUD each which is about $220 USD I gather. I put the Telefunkens back in for what appears a lusher smoother sound. Horses for courses as they say.

Just an update. The Goldpoint attenuators are now on the way!
I'll have my tech install them and might as well get him to do the cap upgrades too.

Will keep you guys posted!

Vmhf, thanks for feedback on your tube rolling. I've wanted to try the Golden Lion KT88s, but hesitated because no one has reported about them with he Carvers. Now, I need to save up.

How much is a pair of EAT 12AX7s?

BTW, I've had GP in my amps for the past 2 years (had the amps for about 3 years I think). I've had zero problems (no hum, no pops, no tube hiss). Bias setting is stable once set. These amps are the most reliable tube amp I've ever owned, on par with the most reliable SS amps.

Hi Tuan89, I'm glad the GP worked out for you. It's the best affordable upgrade, better than tube rolling I think. The attenuator is the first thing the signal sees when it enters the amp, so a crappy volume pot will degrade the sound from the beginning no matter what you do downstream in the amp.

The output coupling caps are 0.22 uF (should be rated at >600V). You'll need 4 of them.

Thanks for the feedback Thuan98.

I will most likely go for the GP attenuator upgrade as well.

I mentioned in an earlier post that I had upgraded my stock Electron KT88s to Sovtek equivalents with great results. I have now upgraded the Sovteks to Gold Lions others seem to recommend here. The results are even better with more refinement in the mids and highs. Plus a veil has been lifted it seems on the music with the Sovteks in place. So Gold Lions are definitely recommended for not a huge outlay.

I was also very fortunate to receive some EAT ECC 803S, 12AX7 equivalent.
These sound clearer and more transparent than the Telefunken 12AX7's I was using before. Music just has a more aliveliness to it now with the EAT/GL combo.

Hi all,
I just replace the GP step attenuators just now :)
GP sent me the wrong (10K) instead 100K and take extra time to receive them. And it took me some searching to match the wires color code to new volume pot.
In short, this upgrade is dirt cheap and it worth every penny of $168 shipped :)
Sound is much more refined across spectrum.
Hope Carver still honor 7 yr warranty with my work on this GP replacement :)
Big thanks to Dracule on this mod
I still have no clue which cap you mentioned as I couldn't read the value of them (in placed with value at bottom)

Thanks Dracule,
I haven't open up the amp yet, so not sure how many joints that I need to desolder. Might need to buy some desolder wick to make the job cleaner/easier :)

The standard knobs on my Cherry 180 fit the GP. But my Cherry 180s may have different knobs than the current production. I would get the GP first and see if they fit your standard knobs.

Hi Thuan, I have the GP Mini-V Mono, 100kOm, in my amp.

http://www.goldpt.com/prices.html

I checked the existing knobs and seem like 6mm or 1/4 in which match with GP shaft of 6mm. Ordered a pair.
Thx

Hi Dracule,
I'm ready to try out the Goldpoint. The existing knobs fit this GP? Or I have to order new knobs from GP?
TIA
Thuan

Thanks again Drac on your thoughts. Yes, I think the Bobs deserve very good tubes plus cables. I have tried a few different IC's from my source to the Bobs with great results. I have a pair of Wywires Gold and also Jorma Unity RCAs. Having difficulty deciding which sounds better. Also the power cables into each Bobs are Wywires Juice II Blue which are moderately priced and sound great into the Bobs. Previously was using just stock power cables as the amps were running in.

That's great you found affordable better KT88s. I read on thetubestore.com that the Sovtek has tight bass except for the very bottom end. What is your assessment of the very bottom end of this tube?

The EAT tubes are crazy expensive, and I've read they have reliability issues. I was considering Northern Electric KT88s which are "only" $198 per tube. Some very positive user reviews claim the NE is as good as the EAT tubes. The Carver's deserves the very best tube you can find.

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/KT88-Tube-Types/Northern-Electric-KT88

I was a bit hesitant on spending $450 on a single EAT KT88 so went the other way around on a $30 Sovtek! Haha!

Gamble paid off as these slaughter the stock tubes in my system!

Sovtek KT88s? I think those are even cheaper than the stock tubes, and they sound better than the stock? That's great. I have the Telefunken smooth plate 12AX7s.

Thanks for the update mate. I'll certainly think about the upgrade in the near future. I ended up getting my pairs of matched sextant Sovtek kt88 tubes and the improvements in sound are vast to say the least! The music is more refined but most noticeably is a tighter, more detailed bass response. My input tubes being Telefunken 12AX7 with ribbed plates and Siemens 12AX7 with ribbed plates. Also have on hand some Trigon 12AT7 and Phillips 12AX7 to play around with!

VmhF, great news! Bob Carver has informed me replacing the stock volume pot with the Gold Point stepped attenuator by a qualified professional will not void the warranty on the amp.

Vmhf, I understand your warranty concern. As far as your CDP volume issue is concerned, it depends on the quality of the the volume control circuit of the CDP. If it is high quality, I would set Bobs vol control to max which will almost effectively bypass the amp's stock pot. If you decide to install the Gold Point attenuator in the future, I would set the CDP vol to max and use the GP to control the volume. Nothing I've tried so far beats the GP installed in the amp.

Hi Dracule. Despite your wholehearted recommendations of upgrading the vol control and output caps I have decided to leave the amps as is mainly for warranty issues. I am still waiting for my upgraded KT88s and a few more input tubes to arrive. Fun days ahead!

I do have a question for 180 users though. If using a CD player with volume control directly connected to the Bobs, who sets the Bobs vol knobs to max and adjusts volume via the CD player? Previously I had the CD player output maxed out and used the Bobs to adjust volume to each channel. But lately I have been having problems with imaging with this approach. Sound quality wise I can't seem to tell a difference. Cheers.

Bob Carver tube amp owners should unite and ask for stepped volume control and better output coupling caps as upgrade options. They're easy upgrades that significantly improves the sound.

Ah yes, I remember this story of Bob and Stu Hegeman. The best designers of the glory tube years would never consider designing a SET amp, including Bob. It was PP class AB amps all the way, and to my ears they are more neutral than any SET amp I've heard. Bob is an entertaining story teller. Thanks for the link Vic.

This becomes an interesting read towards the bottom.

http://db.AudioAsylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=tubes&n=231311&highlight=6al5&r=&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3Fforum%3Dtubes%26searchtext%3D6al5

Man! You're right. I having a total recall. I don't use active preamps, so it slipped my mind.

Don't forget Bob's superb "Sunfire Classic Vacuum Tube Control Center," the preamp design from the mid '90's which has become one of those rare components which, just 10 years after the last one rolled off the line, is selling for more than it sold new.

Bob is awesome. I'm glad he's in high end tube audio again. Last time was back in the 80's with is Silver 7 mono blocks.

Carver 305s are now listed in Jonathan Valin's reference system at he end of the Audio Research Corp. trio review in the January 2013 edition of TAS.

As Dracule mentioned earlier in this thread the Carver 305 are also listed in the TAS "Upper-End Tube Power Amps of the Year," in that same January 2013 issue.

Of course his stable is in a constant state of change, still, that's some prestigious power amplifier company to be in.

This is one of only two products I've purchased without a physical audition. Thanks goes mainly to those who participated and shared their impressions in this thread.
Also the Peter Breuniger video review of the VTA 180s driving the difficult load MBL's.
The Dick Olsher review for the recent historical collaborative development of the amplifiers and the formation of Carver LLC.

Vic, I understand your concern. Personally, I think the Goldpoint mod would be the easiest and most bang for the buck improvement. Carver should offer this as an upgrade option.

After rereading the manuals Warrantee the idea of voiding a seven year warrantee gives me second thoughts of incredibly intriguing modifications. Enjoy.

Thanks Dracule1.

Vmhf, you need two MiniV, 100 kOhm, mono version. $79 each.

http://www.goldpt.com/prices.html

Jeff, the output coupling caps are 0.22 uF. There is a feedback cap in there that is 2.2 uF. All you have to do is pop the hood and check.

Hi Dracule1. Will give my opinions on the input tubes I have shortly!
Just wondering which Gold Point Stepped Attenuators go with the Bobs. There's quite a few choices. Thanks again!

Hi Dracule 1: You said in an earlier post that the output coupling caps were a 0.22 uf rating, then posted 2.2 uf in a later post. Which is it? If they're 2.2 uf, would there be enough room to fit the Deuland Cast caps in there? Thanks, Jeff

Hey Vmhf, let us know of your impressions on the different 12AX7/12AT7s you've tried.

Thanks Dracule1.

I am more than happy to physically switch cables too. In fact I don't have any room on my racks to accommodate a preamp anyway!

Currently I have some upgraded KT88's on the way and have been listening to a variety of 12AX7's and 12AT7's with remarkable improvements to the sound!
Its all good fun and very satisfying.

Cheers.

Vicdamone, yes the Vcaps will replace the stock 2.2 uF output coupling caps.

Vmhf, you will get the best result installing the Goldpoints within the input of the amp. Having an external passive will degrade the sound compared to the above. Believe me, I've tried. If you want remote, you get the the Bent Audio remote control kit for the Goldpoints.

If you want to use both your phono and CDP without having to switch cables, I would recommend an active preamp. But you need to make sure the active preamp doesn't have too much gain, because Bobs amps have input sensitivity of 1.25 V for full power.

After you hear the Goldpoints in the amp, it's hard to go back to anything else because the sound quality so darn good. I'm willing to physically switch cables and go without remote for the best sound possible.

Vicdamone, you will need two Vcaps per monoblock, so four total. I have the tin foil, not the copper foil Vcap. I think an even better cap would be the copper PIO Duelund CAST caps, but I can't afford them right now. They're on sale at Partsconnexion.com.

You are wealth of knowledge Dracule1. Thanks heaps for the advice.
I am looking into the Gold Point stepped attenuators now. I noticed the same guys also make passive preamps using their attenuators. Any thoughts on using a passive preamp with the Cherry 180s?
In fact any thoughts on using preamps with these great amps would be much appreciated. I am currently using my two sources, CD and phono, into the Bobs but need to physically switch cables every time I want to hear the other source.

Good one Drac. I haven't been under to hood on my 180's. Is that two or four Teflon Vcaps per mono block? Will the Vcaps be replacing some existing caps?

Thanks Vmhf. Bob amps used to come with NOS smooth plate Telefunken 12AX7 and RCA or GE 12AT7, which were a great combination. From what I understand, the current signal tube are crappy Chinese signal tubes. If you can get the high quality Chinese Psvane 12AX7/12AT7, you will even surpass the NOS combination. More extension in the bass/treble, more air, better soundstaging and imaging, etc. For Maggies, may be the 300 watt Black Beauty may be a better match.

I have a little secret to share with you if you want to improve the sound more than what high quality signal tube can do. And it's affordable. You will significantly increase bass impact and dynamics (may rival your SS amp), among all the other improvements I've talked about. Replace the stock volume control pots in the amp with Gold Point stepped attenuators (~$160). You will be shocked at the improvement. If you are handy with soldering iron or have a local tech, this is the best mod I've done on this amp. A more expensive mod is to put in four 0.22 uF Teflon Vcap as output caps. These two mods will take these amps to a whole new level. Bob's circuitry is rock solid and installing high quality key parts can make this amp sound just incredible.

My MMGs were previously powered by an ME 550 solid state power amp. Using a Dynavector L300 preamp the sound with the Maggies was simply superb to my ears. Quite effortless with plenty of punch. With the Bobs connected the soundstage is more open and I hear more of the harmonics of instruments and vocals. The ME/Dyn combo without doubt has more bass slam but lacked the air and upper extension of the Bobs. As mentioned before the Bobs do need to be turned up a fare bit for the MMGs to sing though.

These are my views with all stock standard tubes supplied with the Bobs so things could change in a hurry!

Maggies do soak up power like a sponge...can you describe more in detail how the Carvers sound on them?

Thanks guys. I missed that earlier post Thuan. Will certainly get some Gold Lions when funds permit. I have hooked up the Bobs to my Maggie MMGs with great results. I need to turn the volume up to around half way to get decent spl but the Bobs don't seem to be struggling at all.

I mentioned in my post on Jan 22 that I have Gold Lion for power tube- Great upgrade for money. I'm thinking about getting Black Treasure or Psvane when I have some extra cash :)
Roll 12 tubes would cost a small fortune if getting premium grade
Check tube-sale.com for various grades available