Bluesound Node versions SQ

@soix don't shoot the messenger. I'm merely asking a technical "why?". I also believe the old axiom that a fool and his money are soon parted if they aren't at least a bit skeptical. I'm not arguing with you or anyone else on DACs. They obviously have sonic characteristics because at the end of the chain, they are analog devices, with design choices made to give the best sound at any price point.

But I'm simply not sold on "mere" transports being all that different.  Either they should be passing the correct data stream or they aren't. There's no middle ground when it comes to digital - or at least there shouldn't be.

So, if there is, (and many on here say there is) there inherently should be some way of measuring that and seeing why. That's all I'm asking for. A valid engineering answer to the "why?"

And just as important for manufacturers would be understanding that "why" and applying it to their own products.  A black box is a black box. Applying a time domain transfer function to one box should be able to make it sound very nearly identical to the other one and do so for perhaps less money.  

Bob Carver did this decades ago with some of his amplifiers and all the audiophiles agreed, his amp sounded exactly the same as the one he was modeling.

At the end of the day, I'm just looking for "why?"  This isn't magical fairy dust. It all is based on knowledge of electrical engineering, the technology available (when the bean counters allow it), design philosophy, and psychoacoustics. 

Happy listening! 

@moonwatcher 

I whole heartedly agree with your premise but most of the folks on this site believe that they can hear an audible difference if three stones are placed on top of their  amplifier instead of two. Measurements do not mean anything--0011100 are not the same if rendered by different components. Just soak it all in and enjoy the music.

Cheers,

@grunge1000 we all bemoan the lack of very many younger people getting into this hobby beyond their cellphones and earbuds or maybe Bluetooth noise cancelling headphones, so when a young 20-something coworker, who has backed into this hobby via home theater asks me questions contemplating a purchase, if I can't give him a valid "why" something should sound better, they might just decide to stick with Bluetooth, and that is rather sad. We need to grow this hobby, or we are going to end up with no middle ground choices. It will all be cheap Chi-Fi or $$$ boutique devices. Pity.  But yes, "just enjoy the music". 

so when a young 20-something coworker, who has backed into this hobby via home theater asks me questions contemplating a purchase, if I can’t give him a valid "why" something should sound better, they might just decide to stick with Bluetooth, and that is rather sad.

@moonwatcher The best advice is to have him/her demo something in their system  — that’d be more effective/impactful than any words or logic, and it’s easy to try things like DACs and streamers risk free these days so why not?  Words only go so far, and listening is the final arbiter anyway.  They’ll either hear the improvements or they won’t, and that’ll override any words/logic you can provide. 

@soix

I’m sure you’ve heard the (TRUE) story of Bill Johnson, the founder of Audio Research, being accosted by an engineer back in 1972 for introducing tubes back into audio when transistors had just shown - by Golly! - that tubes were antiquated and hopeless and didn’t produce good sound. And engineers insisted that transistors were "perfect-sound-forever" gifts from God.  (This was 1966, by the way.)  However, music sounded bad played thru transistors. REALLY bad. I wonder why the measurements didn’t help them. Could it be that they had completely untrained ears?

Anyway, that was then. And the engineers were wrong then, too. While measurements can do some things, they can’t do everything. They can’t discern the difference between a Yamaha flute and say, a Selmer. The measurements will be identical, nonetheless.

I find it fascinating that, in a field called AUDIO, people insist on trusting measurements instead of using their ears. I do realize they don’t trust their ears, of course. And maybe they shouldn’t! We’ve all heard that ears can be fooled, and I’m sure they can be. That said, I would STILL never mistake a Yamaha piano for a Steinway, so I guess my old, old, OLD (and) fallible ears are still good for something! People like measurements because they don’t know how to listen using their ears. I don’t blame them. With the lack of music classes or band courses in high school, many people get through 30 years of their life without ever having heard a flute, or a trumpet. Or even live drum sets. They can’t identify acoustic instruments, so measurements make them feel better. That, and it gives them license to sneer at others.