In another thread, someone mentioned that the flexible 4 AWG as sold by partsexpress.com for about 2 bucks a foot is pretty darn close to the insides of certain mega buck, monster cables.
So another idea for this timeless thread: is there some way we could twist together 2 or even 3 strands of the 4 AWG and terminate it? |
I've got my lawn mower orange 100 foot extension cord all choopped up into about a 4 to 6 guage wire shotgun 3 times over. I couldn't go any farther my connectors wouldn't hold anymore.LOL
i'LL NEED TO LISTEN TO THEM AGAIN.
I've been swaping stuff in and out of system just experimenting alot |
Twenty years ago and friend and I used Distech speaker wires in shotgun wirings to make power cords. I still have a pc with four. He went all the way to 16 and said he was still getting an improvement. I dropped out at four.
Somewhere in all the crap in my storage room I have Bill Low's Big Red speaker wire. It is about 1.5" in cross section. The copper now is oxidized, but I don't remember it being very good. I don't know what gauge this would amount to, perhaps 2? |
Tbg, I had Audioquest Big Red too. You're right, it was not great sounding, I remember Kimber being superior and it was WAY smaller. |
I found it difficult to understand the undisputed claim that gold has a lower level of resistance than silver, according to the periodic table silver is the best conductor, followed by copper, gold however is quite a bit less conductive. I therefore conclude that it is used to gain a sweet (slow?)sonic presentation, rather then its conductive properties. I am very impressed with the UPOCC silver, and at present presume this to be the best metallic conductor available at present. |
Silver bad, copper GOOOOD! I've gone through the mill again with cables and tried all the new offerings such as SR Tesla and the winner IS.....MIT! Me likey:O ) |
Dave_b, it just shows the futility of forums on sound. I found even the SR accelerator superior to the Oracle Analogs or the Nordost Odins. The SR Apex are in their own league. I just hope this continues to hold as I bought many SRs. |
That is weird...no accounting for individual systems, rooms and tastes:O) |
The sickest cables i have heard to yet is made by liquid cables. Was the first time ever i heard a huge difference in sound. I came about them at the CES show in Montreal when 2 rooms were carrying the same speakers. Lafleurs. One room must of had well over a 100,000$ of equipement hooked up on them as for the other was hooked up on some Chinese xindak. You would never guess which room had the most amazing sound there. You guess it ........ xindak room. Why? The wires were worth 15 000 but man what a difference. No comparaison. I was blown away and so were 30 other people in a small room crammed in. |
Maverick, please tell us more about these "liquid" cables. At first I thought you were talking about the Cerious Technology cables, but I don't think they are still in business. |
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/salon_son_image_2009/becker1/page2.htm
scroll down the page to you get to the lafleur speakers you will see the liquid cables mentioned there and they are still in business this was at the 2009 CES show in Montreal in april |
Maverick, I did find the reference and found TEO Liquid Cables. They seem no different from Cerious Technology cables as both use a liquid conductor. |
Norm (Tbg), it's true that both use liquid conductors, but that's where the similarity ends. Cerious uses ceramic material, whereas Teo Audio uses a proprietary alloy of gallium, indium, and tin which was initially developed as a relatively safe substitute for liquid mercury. |
Essentialaudio, so I learned from an email from Cerious Tech. They say the Teo Audio mix is toxic. |
Tbg, contact cleaner is toxic. So are a lot of things around the house. What is the point of the remark? |
Tbg, contact cleaner is toxic. So are a lot of things around the house. What is the point of the remark? Teo Audio cable have a HMIS Health rating of 1, meaning it is not typically any threat to your health. I ask Teo Audio about these cables at CES, I was told no long runs or phono. That rules out all but two cables in my system so I never tried them. |
I have followed this thread for a little, I guess I might add a little of my experience in the last 6 months. Tried Virtual Dynamics Revelation 2.0 series (6 gauge) and loved it, and talked with the owner of the company a bit. Then I made some cables with 3/8" rods of copper and a lot of the Virtual Dynamics technology, and am in complete amazement at what I got from it. Absolutely amazing, I will never go back to wire again! (Even managed to get the ends of the rods machined down to 8 awg to make interconnects as well, same result of amazement and tears). |
I bet those 3/8" rods are difficult to maneuver around!!!! |
Then I made some cables with 3/8" rods of copper and a lot of the Virtual Dynamics technology, and am in complete amazement at what I got from it. Not worried about the "skin effect" I suppose. Regards, |
Yeah, they were hard to put into place :)
As to the skin effect, I found that the utilization of magnets, and shielding thereof to manipulate the flux lines, seemed to overcome it to a large degree. I have a lot more linearity than I did before. I don't hear any roll-off in the highs at all, if anything they seem more full-bodied, natural and more present than I have heard before. Every frequency range seems tighter, more controlled, less distorted, but has power and weight to it. I have played a few of the pieces I use for reference recordings with professional orchestras, as well as attend live concerts as often as possible, and I now find that impact in my system. I never expected that, didn't believe it possible really, I just wanted a system that didn't hurt my ears to listen to.
Well, I didn't intend to write so much. Everybody has opinions, I think even a lot of scientific theories are opinions that have some research behind them, and are true although they may not be the whole story, and I just wanted to share a little about what I did with some of mine. Still in utter amazement at what I hear, and if anyone is in the Edmonton area, I invite you to come give a listen!
Happy listening, best regards, |
Well that is a new one to me I am no wire god but solid rod 8awg for interlinks is the biggest contradiction in interlink technology I've ever heard of.
I'll try it and let you know but the best I,ve heard is the polar opposite.Remember this is supposed to sound acoustic live not some impressionist creation leave that to the art world. |
My first" audiophile " speaker cables were Polks.
Luckily the pretty green and gold wires never destroyed my amp.
But out of fear I tossed them in favour of the original Bad Boy- the Fulton Gold.
Kept them for a few years,then they too proved too user unfriendly and didn't really sound all that great.
I think they are out there somewhere. |
KHARMA i use KHARMA REF on my MAGICO MINI 2 SOUND GREAT!!!Body weight great sounstage!! |
James Brown cables there SUPER BAD!! |
James Brown cables are man's,man's,man's,man's cable!! |
After listening to some smaller lengths between my source components and preamp, I just persuaded my dealer to persuade TEO liquid cable to make a special 6.5 meter run of RCA interconnects. They weren't sure they could do it initially, but after a few weeks and some listening tests they produced them. I put them between an ARC Ref 5 and a pair of CAT JL-3 monoblocks, and the openess of the sound is just incredible.
I can't of course predict how these would sound in any other system, but if you ever get a chance to demo a pair in your system, I highly recommend you try them out. |
Klinerm, I'm not much of a forum/chat room guy (I'm too wordy!), but your dealer contacted me and let me know about your post. Let's just say that we're thrilled that you're thrilled! Teo Audio's patent attorney says we have in Teo Audio Liquid Cable the first truly new thing to happen in conductor technology in 150 years. These things are very different than conventional solid metal cables. They seem to break all known laws of physics, but in fact only use ones never applied to audio -- liquid metal doesn't follow the same rules as solid metal. It's quite complex, yet just that simple. I'm just glad we have the patents on it! Thanks Klinerm, for your kindness and willingness to try something very new and different, and for your courage to speak out publicly about how wonderful Teo Audio Liquid Cables are! We appreciate it! Oh, yeah, I'm the worldwide point of contact for the product...I'm a bit partial :>) |
Yes, Brian, truthfully, the baseline physics are completely different. The issue is that signal itself is a fluid or plasma effect. running that signal through solidified and crystallized molecular structures like 'solids' is wholly contrary to how the signal itself wants to flow or express it's various and dynamic field conditions.
Running it through a fluid metal, a true fluid, which is free and separate at the molecular level and with high electron mobility at the same time it is charge neutral as relatively possible, means that the signal can express itself more correctly or naturally ...with less noise and less distortion.
More than one person has said that this particular cable added into audio systems makes the single biggest positive change in audio they have ever had or heard in their entire audio careers. This comment came from two different audio equipment distributors who have each been in the audio business for over 30 years.
So yes, there is considerable hype out there in the world of audio, but his is entirely differnent physics at play in this specific case.
One thing for an engineer to try to understand is that all of our basics in electrical measurements are based on the analysis of solids - via solids. Those rules only vaguely apply here and the analysis is so complex that physics cannot yet model what is going on. We (ie, science and maximum possible computer power) only recently managed to figure out how to successfully model a 'single hydrogen atom' structure. So, in essence, the physics of what is at play here cannot yet be modeled. However, we can use good strong intuition, prior experience, and a good mental model of what atomic structure actually is. And atomic structure is not what they taught you in high school.
It is a completely different and dynamic knarly beast, where Einstein, Heisenberg, and quantum function and effect meet in the street and duel it out.
This is all theory, speculation and this is the deep end of the pool in this particular case.
It isn't really an audio cable at all, it merely resembles one - and is a totally different beast.
This cable design presents a true 'before and after' moment in audio times.
For the first time ever, the transfer of the signal between gear is being handled in the exact way that the actual physics of actual signal demands it be handled.
We have a fluid plasma transfer system handling a fluid plasma signal. |
Klinerm, thank you for the unsolicited kind words. I know you are careful about changes in your system, yet your leap of faith based on the shorter interconnects' performance has been rewarded, also confirmed by your friends. Many happy hours of listening. |
Thanks Klinerm, for your kindness and willingness to try something very new and different, and for your courage to speak out publicly about how wonderful Teo Audio Liquid Cables are! We appreciate it! Oh, yeah, I'm the worldwide point of contact for the product...I'm a bit partial :>)
Briankurtz (Answers) Brian, next time you travel this way please consider coming by for music. You can just listen or if you have XLR or RCA cables for demo, bring them along. If travel brings you on a Tuesday, the whole gang is here for you to meet. I miss the days when you lived here, it was good seeing you at the Canada show. |
Essentialaudio, I have kind of dropped out of this thread. I meant no offense about the statement that I repeated from Cerious Technology.
Might I ask about the resistance of these cables. Years ago I had the carbon cables and found I had "ground loop" problems because of their resistance. I now have to lift all ac grounds except that to my H-Cat line stage to get the maximum benefit from it, so I should have no such problems with high resistance cabling. |
Norm (Tbg), I do not have resistance measurements, but we're talking about a liquid metal, not liquid ceramic (Cerious) or carbon (vdH), and I have not seen or heard anything to indicate the resistance is significantly different from, say, interconnects using solid-phase metal conductors, although the manufacturer may provide the information. What they have measured is capacitance, and on another discussion forum Ken Hotte (Kbk above), one of the principals of Teo Audio, posted the following: These cables are and or just were in, shall we say, a state of the art facility. Someone who definitely has the qualifications, just tested them and found that the the 'actual' capacitance of any of them, 1m length, 2m length, etc..any design (there are three extant IC models out of some 200 variations I tried), is a full magnitude lower than...6 inches of soldered in place, air dielectric, untreated, clean, 99.99999% 28g copper wire. Just using a LCR meter won't show this. I repeatedly stated that the cable will simply show you the reflection of the meter's design, nothing more. You have to know how to work at getting true dissipation information. This is part of why it is stated that the cable will simply 'become' the impedance that is necessary for matching or bridging the given presented load(s).
I knew that would be the case, and I didn't bother to measure it as the whole point was to make standard calculations and usage of complex LCR.....Irrelevant. I know the above may raise more questions than it answers, but there you have it, and it's as much information as they are willing to give out...I've asked, myself. As always, the proof is in the listening. Brian Walsh |
STELTH V10 Best cable i have ever heard in my system!! |
Ebm: there is no such model. Maybe you're thinking of cars such as a Dodge Viper.
I just received Teo Audio's new Reference interconnects and speaker cables on loan. |
I Thought Ebm meant Stealth V10, but I see no such animal there.
Tell us about your experiences with the Teo References. |
STELTH V10 came out a few months ago i had STELTH DREAM on loan from my dealer and STELTH. After hearing the DREAM i was told this cable was faster better highs faster bass it is silver ribbon and has a carbon fiber core.I have over 100 hrs on cable and used a Darma cable cooker for a few days i still dont beleive how good this cable is i have had Kharma and Siltech . This cable is faster better staging(much deeper) it is not on the web site yet it is 30% more than the very good DREAM.Hope this clears things up. |
Silver ribbons, say no more.
Auditioning the Teo Audio Reference cables is known to cause severe disenchantment. |
STELTH V10 is now on STELTH web site it is a wonderful cable truly revolutionary. |
Ebm, contrary to your assertions it doesn't exist on the website. It must have been a bad Dream. |
HI, I own it i upgaded from the DREAM you may call Stelth at this time it is shipping but not the web yet. |
Hi again , Just go to Stelth web site go to speaker cable click DREAM the V10 will come up. |
Thanks, a search on their site returned nothing. Where do you live? |
It is STELTH DREAM V10. It is under speaker cable DREAM Model V10!! on STELTH WEB SITE!!Thanks |
Thanks, a search on their site returned nothing. Where do you live? |
STELTH DREAM V10 ON STELTH WEB SITE!! |
I got it the first time. No need to SHOUT!!!!!!!!!!
:-) |
|
Ebm
ARE YOU A DEALER!!!!!!!!!!!
AND/OR DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMERCIAL AFFILIATIONS WITH THAT CABLE?????
JUST WONDERED!!!!! |
I have had Siltech and Kharma Grand Reference in my system this cable is amazing!! I tried Dream from my dealer High Water sound in NYC this DREAM V10 is even better than DREAM. |
SORRY ITS STEALTH WITH AN A STEALTH DREAM V10!!!!SORRY!! |
