>>12-24-10: Weseixas
36K for mini monitors(TAD CR1) and the stands are optional, absurd indeed.
At 36K+ for the TAD CR1 mini monitors, the Magico Q3 is worth a look waaaaaaay before IMO.<<
Interested if you've heard the CR1. If not, your remarks have no merit.
I have no financial affiliation with Magico or TAD. |
I'm not commenting on there sound , that's personal, I'm commenting on a Pr of mini monitors that retails for 36K and require optional stands.
A Mini monitor Loudspeaker for 36K with optional stands is absurd IMO and for those who don't thinks so that's alright by me, kinda leads into what has happened to this industry on a whole.
Regards, |
12-24-10: Weseixas
36K for mini monitors(TAD CR1) and the stands are optional, absurd indeed. Who ever said they were minimonitors? They are 25"h x 13.4"w x 17.5"d, and weigh 100 lbs. each. They are also linear out to 100 KHz, which means their rise time is about 3 to 5 times faster than most conventional speakers. |
>>12-24-10: Weseixas
I'm commenting on a Pr of mini monitors<<
You obviously misunderstand the term "mini monitors" as Johnnyb53 indicated.
Or didn't take the time to review the specifications. |
I'm very much aware of the term "minimonitor" also the difference between mini and full, apparently you guys don't. Full monitors don't require stands, speakers on stands are classified as "Mini" full monitors are floor standing, one would think since you are attempting to sell audio products Bill you would know the difference, so let me help you out here, the tweeter listening height is used to tell the difference.
I really don't understand the issue with this or do you guys find it better to cloud my response with semantics and ridiculous rhetoric. IMO any speaker system selling for 36K and comes with optional stands is ridiculous, it's my cash and for 36K you are asking one to budget for stands.
LOL
Obvious what's wrong here , the same crap that has been wrong with this industry and those that feed it for the last 20yrs, whats a 36K mini monitor when one can have an 20K cartridge.
PS: Love the frequency response comment, 3-5 times faster LOL.
I guess game over.............
Regards, |
Hello. Thanks for all your kind comments. I´ve opted for the Consensus speakers. A fantastic product. |
At around $24K -$26K the Coincident Technology Pure Reference Extremes are nigh impossible to beat. At $40K - $45 K the new Lansche No 5.1 speakers (with their Corona Plasma tweeter) are the cats pajamas. I have the Lansche No. 5's and couldn't be happier.
Greg |
But Weseixas, have you heard the TAD's? That's a fair question. The Q3 is by no means a slouch and I would love to be able to afford them. I just think the TAD's are really special and certainly a must audition if you are in the market to spend that kind of cash.
If you haven't heard them, read the TAS review. The bigger "Reference One's" are even more spectacular...incredible actually.
Give John or Mike at Audio Video logic a call and see them (hear them) for yourself....I guess if you can afford that kind of gear, what's a plane ticket to the Midwest!!?
Happy New Year!!
_Ben |
Frank,
Can you comment on the sound versus the others on the shortlist or was their stunning tall elegant look that grabbed you. |
Shardorne: it´s not just about the look. Their transparency, speed and coherency are better than any of the speakers that I have heard. Theis articulation is world class and the lower octaves (down to 18hz.) are simply stunning. Unfortunately Consensus went ou of business this year (the owner died as far as I have heard). |
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Hello 2chnlben,
No i never heard them @ approx 40K with stands it would have to have SOTA level sound, if you think they do , then they would be a worth a look ..
regards, |
I would have chosen to look at the Consensus Speakers as frank did over the TAD. The Consensus speaker design is more in line of a speaker costing 30K instead of a bookshelf speaker requiring optional stands as the TAD, IMO.
regards, |
Happy new year guys .......... :) |
Frank,
Those Accuton drivers are indeed world class as well as expensive too. To get 14 of them in a pair of speakers with a Sonus Faber quality finish is great value - I imagine you got a good price. Sorry to hear that Consensus went out of business. |
Weseixas...You and I are only "sparing" now, since Frank has already made his decision and purchase - and that was really the point of this thread. That said, if you look here you too will see that no knowledgeable person would ever refer to this speaker as a "bookshelf" design. You need to read about, understand and appreciate the technology behind their proprietary concentric driver (don't think Thiel - this is something altogether different)...TAS magazine doesn't hail just any speaker as, "...the TAD maybe the greatest stand-mounted speaker Ive ever encountered if not one of the best speakers period..." see hereI thought they sounded extraordinary as well. I'm just saying...! Happy New Year to you as well! Cheers! _Ben |
Frankpiet,
What preamp and amp setup to you plan to use? |
Hello Ben,
I guess some have an issue with the term mini monitor, i would be interested in hearing what one should call the TAD1's.
Years ago, any speaker of such dimensions were classified as Bookshelf type, years later such size speakers were referred to as Mini monitors when placed on stands, coupling them to the floor, as opposed to full size monitors that were placed directly on the floor.
This was not determined just from the size of the speakers, but more specifically the tweeter height if placed on the floor.
IMO the TAD 1 are mini monitors , where the Consensus are full monitors and are floor standers, funny in the 60's my dad bought a set of KLH speakers, that were very similar in dimensions to the TAD1 and yep they were classified as bookshelf speakers..
With marketing being what it is , they (TAD) can call them anything they want, i guess ...
What about 40K Godzilla Monitors with optional stands?.... :)
Regards, |
Ohh almost forgot ,
While i do read TAS, the fact that they do not do any objective testing of any kind makes there analysis very hard to swallow, when they sprout of their best of the best.
Hard data is very essential in determining good ears or good wine..
regards, |
Bookshelf speakers , bigger than TAD1?
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1298727958
|
01-01-11: Weseixas
Years ago, any speaker of such dimensions were classified as Bookshelf type, years later such size speakers were referred to as Mini monitors when placed on stands, coupling them to the floor, as opposed to full size monitors that were placed directly on the floor. There was never a time when "monitor" equaled "floor-standing" and "stand-mounted" equaled "minimonitor." There are many non-floorstanders which are not minimonitors. Monitor makers such as JBL, Altec-Lansing, Electro-Voice, Westlake Audio, and Genelec make or made very large heavy monitors. e.g., 28"h x 40"w x 24"d, that weigh from 130-300 lbs. each, that are not meant to sit on the floor. They are full range, of imposing size, with enormous dynamic range, but no one would ever call them "mini-monitors" just because they are designed to be stand- or wall-mounted. Many monitors are purposely NOT floorstanders to make sure all drivers are in line-of-sight (really, line of ears) of the mixdown engineer and to minimize floor boundary reinforcement of low frequencies. Today's mini-monitor morphed from two lines--the compact bookshelf speaker (not the oversized ones) and the compact remote monitor--an easy-to-transport monitor for onsite use in nearfield mode for playback and mixdown. Most true "mini-monitors" have little meaningful bass extension below 70 Hz. The CR-1 is certainly not one of those. Examples include The Wilson WATT without the Puppy and the M&K mini-monitors, which were often supplemented with their own powered subs. The operative word here is "mini". A true mini-monitor is small, maybe 6"x8"x10" up to 8"x10"x14" (1120 cubic inches). Meanwhile, the TAD CR-1 is 24.7"h x 13.4"w x 17.5"d, making for a volume of ~5792 cubic inches (and a weight of 101 lbs. each). This is the equivalent volume of a tower speaker of about 45"h x 10"w x 13"d. There is nothing "mini" about it. The stand it sits on is about 18" high, not the 32" or so that 10"h minimonitors require. The CR-1is "compact" only relative to the speaker it derives from, TAD's flagship Reference One, a 330lb. 51"h x 21.75"w x 27"d floorstander that retails at $70,000/pair. It has some of the most advanced and exclusive driver technology on the pro or home audio market. The stand-mounted CR-1 offers the same overall performance, but gives up one woofer and about 1/2 octave of bass extension for a little over half the price of the flagship. Given their provenance, they may even represent a particularly good value, regardless of what they sit on. |
Again John, i said fullrange monitors not "Monitors" and relative to studio monitors the term is applied differently in the commercial field, such as nearfield and or farfield monitors (genelec is of recent).
There are various terms used today and most are applied loosely today, via marketing. A manufacturer can call his speakers anything he wants, but based on the past, i reserve the right to accept or not to.
The TAD1 are mini monitors or bookshelf speakers, take your pick ...
Regards, |
Geez Weseixas...You must hate to be wrong! Does your wife accuse of being a "control freak!"
Harbeth 40's a bookshelf speaker...LOL! |
John .
What is TAD's designation for the TAD1 , monitor? stand speaker? it's 2 small to be a monitor in the realm of a SA12 or B&W 801's , you do know these were classified as monitors and they were much bigger than the tad1.
The key to the designation is the tweeter height , i said so many moons back , over and over , the TAD1 has a tweeter height that is less than 24 inchs , that makes it a mini monitor , no matter how many pounds they put into it.
Now if you want to say they are monitors, OK , but they are smaller than speakers with such a designation and bigger than the usual mini .. now what ?
Here is a speaker with the similar tweeter height to the TADS 1
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1298727958
IMO the TAD1's are mini monitors, but I'm willing to update and call them the biggest mini monitors heeevar made.
:):):)
regards,
|
Jonnyb53: You too seem to be impressed with the TAD speakers. Have you had a chance to hear the big Reference One's? Not sure where you live, but Audio Video Logic, out of Des Moines, will be holding a TAD, Krell and Nordost seminar on the evening of Thursday, January 27. Andrew Jones, of TAD, will be on hand and both the "mini monitors" (LOL) and the big Reference Ones will be demod on the $100,000+ house system. seminar Disclaimer: I cant afford either pair of TAD speakers
in fact, Im going so I can meet the Krell rep and demo their new S-275 amp. The TADs are mighty impressive though. The big JBL Everest speakers will also be on display
hope to see some of you guys there (not sure if anyone is located in the Midwest
??). Cheers! _Ben |
No 2chnlben... but i do see your response as an attempt to control my opinion, making you the control freak. |
I apologize, Weseixas, if I left you with that impression. The simple fact is that in regard to the particulars about speaker designs Jonnyb53 and I are
well, much less incorrect than you are! I was merely pointing out this fact...
I will concede however, that this is all pretty much petty bickering at this point and completely off topic - my apologies to the OP.
Cheers!
_Ben |
Ben ,
Please do explain ,why i'm more incorrect than you and johnnyB,
You both gave your opinions and i mine, I then cited historical facts of how speakers were designated in the past, I also pointed out an ad with a bigger speaker on stands , classified as a bookshelf speaker, all historically correct.
Historically the tweeter height is what is used to determined the designation...
Regards, |
Let us know how they sound when you hear them Ben ....
Regards,
|
It seems some people think the Wilson Sasha is the best speaker:
2010 Speaker of the year" and "Product of the year" award -Stereophile.
2010 "Cost-no-object Floorstanding Loudspeaker of the Year" by The Absolute Sound |
01-02-11: 2chnlben
Jonnyb53:
You too seem to be impressed with the TAD speakers. Have you had a chance to hear the big Reference One's? Not sure where you live, but Audio Video Logic, out of Des Moines, will be holding a TAD, Krell and Nordost seminar on the evening of Thursday, January 27. Andrew Jones, of TAD, will be on hand and both the "mini monitors" (LOL) and the big Reference Ones will be demod on the $100,000+ house system. seminar
Disclaimer: I cant afford either pair of TAD speakers
Thanks a lot for the heads-up, but that would be a 3800-mile field trip (I'm in Seattle). Sounds like a great open house. I go to my local high end store's annual vendor open house, which includes visits from Wilson, Vandersteen (I've heard the Model 7), Mikey Fremer, Ayre, SME, Audio Research, Magnepan, VTL, Transparent, B&W, Classe', etc. and they've been very enlightening. Unfortunately AFAIK there is no TAD dealer in greater Seattle. The TAD speakers are way out of my reach too, but maybe you could consider the Pioneer's trickle-down versions, the stand-mounted Pioneer S-2EX at $6K and the floorstanding S-1EX at $9K. They use a cost-reduced version of the TAD's coincident mid/tweet driver with the 250-100Khz range. It uses magnesium for the midrange cone, but other than that, uses vapor-deposited beryllium for the tweeter plus neodymium magnets as in the TAD products. |
TAS also gave the Wilson Sasha the thumbs up ..... |
That's definitely a bit of a "drive" Johnnyb53!
I'm not in any way affiliated with Audio Video Logic. I have however become friends with John, the owner, over the years. I have a great deal of respect for John and other audio proprietors who have either remained committed to , or delved back into true high-end audio sales.
The last decade or more has seen many high-end dealers either close their doors or go the route of the mainstream and mid-fi markets. Im glad to see companies like AVL picking up new lines and products like TAD, the awesome JBL Everest speakers, ARCs Reference line, etc. These guys need to be supported though, and they need to reach an even broader audiences base than ever before. Out of appreciation, I really want to get the word out.
Be sure to support your local audio dealers and if you cant find what youre looking for in your market, dont hesitate to look outside of your buying areas and even outside the state(s) you live in. These guys deserve our support. I cant say enough kind words to do my local dealer, Audio Video Logic, justice. Theyre a class act.
_Ben |
i really don't understand why someone would post such a question and i will keep my opinions to myself. just wondering if the original poster were to find a speaker that was the best thing he ever heard and it cost $12000, would he disregard it and purchase something for $40000 just because. hmmm... |
I guess for everything (well almost) there's usually a standard setting benchmark at every price point. If you look wise and hard enough, I'd be hard pressed if you can't find one best speaker in 45k range that bettered your best in the 15k range (subjectively). Just as I think you would easlily find that best of 100k sport sedan beating out those best in the 25k category. Hence, stating of price bracket to this thread is valid and applicable, imo. |
I'd consider Rockport as well. |
My fave speakers are:
Coincident Technology Pure Reference Extreme's ~$25,000
Lansche No. 3 ~ $30,000
Lansche No. 5.1 ~ $45,000
Marten Coltrane Soprano ~ $50,000
Greg |
what's the rest of your system? |
My current system consists of the Lansche No. 5 speakers, the Einstein Light in the Dark stereo amplifier, the Einstein The Tube Mark II preamplifier, and the Lindemann 820S SACD/CD player. I also use as power conditioners/surge protectors the Pure Power 2000 AC regenerator and the Pure Power 1050 unit as well. I plan on getting a VPI classic turntable with a Soundsmith "The Voice" cartridge. Then I will probably add a Coincident Technology phono stage. I also use Oyaide R-1 power outlets with their WPZ carbon fibre outlet plates.
If I didn't get a screaming deal on Lansche No. 5 speakers I would have gotten the Coincident Technology Pure Reference Extreme.
Greg |
