In my opinion, no isolation foot or platform even comes close to what the StillPoints Ultra Stainless Steel feet do for isolation. I don't sell them nor have any involvement with this company and they are not cheap, but everyone I know who have tried them agree with me that they are revolutionary. |
SYMPOSIUM Using Stealth Amp stand Roller blocks Stealth stands under my Audience 6ts and 6tGp upgrade MUCH better with SYMPOSIUM. |
I've given credit to things like upgraded power cords, dedicated lines, room tuning and even aftermarket fuses for making improvements to the sound of my system.
I've used modded Target type stands and all manor of sismic sinks, Roller blocks, BDR,and wooden chopping blocks and felt pretty good about all of my effforts.
What I've never been conviced of is that any upscale audio rack would make a difference to what I cobbled together.
I mean all the other stuff I agonize over really counts, the stand is just a stand right?
Well I should have known better, me the tweekster,should have known that no stone should be left unturned in the pursuit of great sound.
So it is with grat pleasure that I announce that my most recently purchased audio toy is a Grand Prix Audio LeMans rack.
And to say that this one item alone surpasses all my expectations is not saying enough about the improvemnt this stand has made in the sound of the music coming from all my other toys.
Can a better snad box improve the toys that are in it?
Maybe not, but this audio stand certainly improves the toys placed on it.
One point to make,because I am a tweester I substituted the slim Grand Prix spikes for 3 fatter brass ones from my Ref 3A Grand veens(which use BDR cones -ah the tweekster strikes again)and the bass impact and fullness of the music went up several notches.
I would expect the delite people get from using the GP Apex footers is because the stock slim GP spikes are holding back what this rack can do.
I can honestly say that with the GV spikes on the GP stand,the whole GD sytem has improved by leaps and bounds.
The best audio purchase I've ever made. |
Jadem6: I cannot speak from experience regarding the Brilliant Pebbles and Clever Lil Clock, but I do have experience with Geoff's Nimbus Stand. I used it at a show about four or five years ago and think very highly of it. It has real science behind it and is very obvious from first use. Geoff is a very smart man who is also quite the gentleman. I understand your questioning the products, but I can tell you that Geoff does deserve respect for the accomplishments I am aware of.
Question him offline, I am sure you will be impressed. |
Guidocorona - Ya got me! I thought you were the one that couldn't spell, but it was I.... Good one!
Jadem6 - Excellent reaction! - the feeling is quite mutual, btw. You must not get out much...
Seurat - of course, one might ask why the gravitational wave experiment doesn't use a rack instead of a pendulum to isolate the interferometer... :-) |
Thank you GeoffKait, I am glad 'sesimic' is but an unofficial variant of good old-fashioned 'seismic'. I was afraid I was confronting yet a new novel Age Physics other-dimensional phenomenon measurable only through Radionics-based apparati. Even in their classic spelling, I am not quite sure I am terribly concerned about vibrations induced by tectonic movements in the Mantle, Crust, subduction faults or otherwise. If they are strong enough to be felt by me, bloating in the midbass will be the very least of my concerns. And if my house were in an area prone to anything more than sporadically occurring microquakes. . . it would be high time to move elsewhere, before anything larger than 'micro' hits that idyllic neighbourhood. On the other hand, vibrations directly or indirectly induced by human presence and transaction -- or by weather -- constitute more realistic targets for musical concern and eventual absorption. |
Geoffkait, I just read this thread, and frankly am not sure if I should laugh, cry or yell. What is your program??? Machina dynamica Brilliant Pebbles - $258.00, Machina dynamica Clever Lil Clock - $199.00. Are you seriously expecting anyone to believe in the Machina dynamica Nimbus isolation table - $800.00. It is people like you who sell %$#@ for inflated prices that have made the legitimate science based products fall into scrutiny. Beyond that, you have the gall to post on a thread like this to promote yourself. I assume your stomach rubs on the ground as you walk, for I can not think of a lower form of life. I am happy to see no one has fallen for your current auctions, perhaps after a year or so you will crawl back into your hole.
Now I understand you are just following the lead of Sksos, that is another story all together. Luckily I have not followed either of your "scientific" solutions...
jd |
Considering that seismic vibrations have long wavelength, several kilometers (they can reach hundreds of kilometers), two adjacent points, like the feet of the rack, vibrate with coherently (with the same phase). The rack only suffers from a vertical displacement movement, the wave never gets inside of the rack in order to excite it's modes of vibration. The amplitude of these waves are so small, we are not talking about a earthquake, that are neglectable for a audio rack. The problems involving the interaction of a seismic wave and a rack are several orders of magnitude smaller than the traffic induced noise or children playing through home. I dont see how this is the biggest problem to deal with. Please explain.
One can control the ressonance frequency trough mass, stiffnes or damping. You manage this low ressonant frequancy, only by using springs?
Low ressonant frequency is not the only usefull parameter, what is the settling time of your rack?
Energy spectrum is also usefull.
You seem to use a pendulum system that I have allready seen in some very tall building projects, to minimize oscilations cause by enviromental phenomena, such as wind driving forces. I've also seen it in a prroject to isolate an interforemeter in a gravitacional wave experiment facility.
IMHO, I think that a rack should adress other more important issues, like struture borne sound (generated inside and outside of the rack) or air borne sound, than seismic wave problems. |
Guidocorona - seismic vibrations are the energetic waves that travel along the surface of the Earth that are produced by movement of the Earth's crust, especially along fault lines -- not only earthquakes, but less intense, continuous motion ("microseismic" activity). These seismic waves have transverse, perpendicular and rotational components (forces) capable of travelling long distances with great rapidity.
The seismic wave acts on a building much like a wave on the ocean passing under a boat -- when the wave passes under it, it forces the boat to move up and down, also pushes the boat forward and back and rocks it to and fro.
For convenience, we often include under the heading "seismic vibration" other sources of low-frequency vibration: automobiles, trucks and buses; trains and subways; the effect if tides around coastal areas, the effect of wind on high rise buildings (sway), even low frequency vibration produced by large applicances in the building -- large fans, A/C, etc. |
Has anyone here tried these Magnetic Levitators from GR-Research http://www.gr-research.com/levitator.htm |
Very interesting. What are Sesimic vibrations? |
Seurat - Machina Dynamica (my company) currently makes 3 isolation devices, the most complex of which is Nimbus Sub-Hertz Platform, a pneumatic (air spring) type device. The Promethean and Nirvana are mechanical spring type devices. Nimbus is a floorstanding 28" tall stand with max load of about 40 lb.
The primary objective of all 3 of these devices is to attenuate seismic vibration, which we feel is the main culprit (as opposed to airborne vibration or induced vibration) that degrades the sound. I should mention all 3 of our iso stands address airborne and induced vibration as well as sesimic.
Nimbus is a *single* air spring design that employs (25 lb) ballast located well below the air spring, as well as special lateral support (steel spring) system, both of which required to build up lateral support for the otherwise floppy airspring. The advantages of a single air spring are: it allows use of *near perfect geometry* air spring, provides extremely low spring rate for very low resonant freq. under load and avoids (unwanted) interactions among multiple bladders/air springs.
Nimbus also employs a very large auxiliary air reservoir that is fitted to the Firestone air spring. This aux air reservoir considerably reduces the effective spring rate of the air spring (thus the system resonant freq).
The use of a single air spring and the unique pendulum (unipivot) design of Nimbus allows isolation in all 6 directions of motion. Since Earth's crust (continuous) motion produces seismic waves ("shaking out a carpet" analogy), isolation of the audio component in the 3 rotational directions, in additional to vertical direction and all horizontal directions, is quite important, relatively speaking. The (extremely strong) sesimic waves force the building to move up and down and back and forth, as well as force it to rotate. The waves are coming from many directions, so the actual dynamics of the situation is *very* complex.
Sesimic vibration has most of its energy around 0 - 3 Hz. Since the peak seismic energy is extremely low in frequency, resonant freq of the isolating device must be extremely low -- the lower the better.
Nimbus achieves 0.5 Hz resonant freq. in 2 rotational directions, about 1 Hz in lateral plane and about 2 Hz in vertical direction, slightly higher in third rotational direction.
We use selective frequency damping of the top plate to remove the last remnants of induced or airborne vibration, and any sesimic vibration that might have made it up thru the iso system.
Our latest iso gadget, Nirvana Base, employs alternating heavy masses and special free-standing helical springs to achieve extremely low isolating system resonant freqs on the order of 1 Hz or below in nearly all directions.
Lastly, Promethean is a simplied version of Nirvana Base and is recommended where heavy loads or space limitations are indicated.
|
Geoffkait
Could you explain your isolation device.
Could you explain the importance of isolating seismic type oscilations.
Thanks |
You're right Norm, it doesn't make any difference. I was just passing on info I was given from one of the 12 full time engineers we have on staff. I have no way of confirming this, but as you say it doesn't make any difference. |
From hwl SCIENTIFIC INSTRUMENTS GmbH web site:
1987 John Sandercock founded JRS Scientific Instruments to develop active isolation systems for the growing market
1991 Introduction of the modular system MOD-2
1995 Introduction of a self-contained unit MOD-1
1996 Worldwide distribution by efforts of Herzan and Halcyonics. The cooperation between JRS and Halcyonics did not developed as intended and ended finally in 2002
2002 Halcyonics bought the non-exclusive rights to the MOD-1 and MOD-2 technology from JRS.
It seems that Halcyonics product is indeed not the same. |
Steve, not that I really care, but it is not true that Herzan makes the Halcyonic units and rebrands them. |
Hi Norm, No we have not demonstrated or even marketed the active unit. At it's price we feel there is not a large market and yes, it is better than the Vibraplane, no questions asked, but at $1850 vs. $7500 we would hope.
There are many of these "Active" isolation devices out there, all come from the same source. Look at Herzan (http://www.herzan.com/ts.html) or do a search for TSI in Germany. HWL Scientific in germany is another source. We all source from the same manufacturer all are just rebranded. The "original" Vibraplane was designed and is manufacturered in the good old US of A. Hope this helps.
Steve
SOS
|
Elberoth2, I cannot really answer your question about whether it is worth the price of admission nor that about whether investment in other components would be more worthwhile. In my experience the answer for me was regretably, yes. I suspect that it would take a demonstration in your home to decide. It certainly was not my intent to put so much money into isolation. I do not know whether SOS has demonstrated their active unit as conpared with the pump up or compressor versions of the Vibraplane, but clearly that would be what would be needed to make a choice. Although I once owned the pump up Vibraplane and have heard the compressor version, I never heard the other unit he speaks of.
Again, I meant only to suggest that isolation and firm grounding are not the only choices. |
Guess my last post was denied by Audigon, I'll try and rephrase. First I thanked David for his post and do appreciate that not everyone can afford, or think a $5000 isolation device is worth the funds. We do make the passive version at $1850 which is sonically identical to the active version except without the compressor. The active is more convenient and that's it. Once someone hears what the VP actually does they usually buy a 2nd or 3rd unit, we actually have a customer who now owns 13 units in one system! A world record I would think. Our US government just purchased another 8 active units. (Thank you Uncle Sam). So I do respect and understand these expensive devices are not for everyone, neither is the $8000 unit Norm has talked about, one that we also sell but even I don't think it's worth the extra $$$ over the standard VP.
A very Happy and SOUND New Year to all.
Steve
SOS |
Was the Halycronics worth the (high) price of admission ?
Don't you think that spending that money on other components could be more beneficial (you could buy a better pre, amp, speakers etc.) ? |
Elberoth2, I am suggesting here that grounding of the noise of the device through rigid supports can be achieved by an active device which also provides isolation through the structure of the shelves and room. I know that spring devices can also absorb noises from components, which causes them to vibrate somewhat or to turn the vibration into heat. I don't think this meets the intent of grounding to the earth's mass or even flooring.
I am aware of the Minus K devices but have not tried them. At their root they are spring isolators, as I read the technology. The Halcyonic device is active, and the Macro 40 can take up to 300 pounds with self leveling.
I must say that I was so blown away by the Halcyonic, which I was allowed to try, that I explored no other professional devices. |
Tbg - I think that absorption is not exactly the same as coupling to the ground. What we would need here, is not absorption, but some kind of mechanical diode (if such a thing exists) which would only let the vigrations travel in one way (from equipment to ground).
BTW - did you have a chance to compare Halycronics to Minus K platforms ? Is Halycronics weight specific (like Minus K) ? |
Mrdavid, I think the thread is long past what you are concerned about. Perhaps, Avphile reintroduced it.
Elberoth2, I hesitate to suggest various active isolators because of their cost, but they are the only solutions I know of. I have also found the Acapella base to be capable of isolating the component as well as absorbing the component originating noise. It pales in comparison to the active units. Yes, I use the expensive Halcyonic Micro 40 under my turntable. |
What's wrong with you people? This forum has turned into a character bashing contest. If any of you would go back and read Adog's posts, it's impossible to conclude that he's the monster you've made him out to be. Clearly, he is NOT the one with the "axe to grind," as one of you accused. This forum has turned into a high school clique of little girls - mean-spirited and unhelpful. In the spirit of total disclosure, I'm not a dealer. I am a customer of High Water Sound, but I'm also a past customer of Sounds of Silence, of Audio Advancements, of Music Direct, and so on. Steve Klein sold me Kondo interconnects. Thank you, Steve. He also told me about the virtues of the Vibraplane. High Water Sound also tried to sell me the Vibraplane when he had three of them in his system. In my world, however, $5000 for a single isolation device is ridiculously stupid, no matter how good it is. I bought an eight shelf finite-element master reference rack instead for roughly the same amount. In my experience, I've never heard any of these reputable "dealers" trash other dealers, at least not to me. So, stick to the subject and stop acting like you're in junior high school. Or shut up! |
Tbg -> can you name those solutions ? |
Elberoth2, yours is the question that divides different solutions. Goldmund strongly advocates grounding to the earth. Soft mounts, such as magnetic, spring, rubber, and bladder isolations, however, seek to isolate the components from vibrations through the shelves and floors. Vibrations can come from the sound through the floor or though the air, from the component it self moving with the music reaching it or from ac or motor vibrations within it, or from vibrations reaching the equipment from outside.
I think the only real answer to your question is: both. I know of few real solutions to both. |
I have a question to ppl wiser than me on this subject.
What is the prime function of equipment supports ?
Should they isolate the equipment from seismic vibrations ? Or maybe on the contrary - they should couple the equipment to the floor, like some of the manufacturers seems to suggest, to create a "drain path" for airborne and electronicborn vibrations. |
Thank you J_Badov, and a very Merry Christmas to you too! Seriously, if you want to experiment with high density ballasts in isolation platforms, Tungsten may be a good way to explore. The Tungsten Company suggests Tungsten is being already applied to isolation devices of sorts. See:
http://tungstenco.com/whytungsten.htm |
Been gone on vacation for the last 5 days and now see why adog posted what he did. Not very professional to say the least, not informing us he's a dealer for SRA. I will give him credit for not bashing other products, or maybe he does offline. |
Guidocorona; Thanks for your Christmas Cheer, Ha Ha Ha, love it! |
Hello all. I am taking precious time away from my wife's WONDERFUL relatives to read the posts. I love Guidocoronas.
Chuckled is an understatement. Love the Kuzma Reference TT/ Airline Arm & also the Vibraplane, but I will only spend the huge dollars required on Uranium tweaks if we can ship directly to the OUTlaws to try before I buy. Let me know.
Best Regards, Nick.
By the way, what ever happened to Adog?? |
Depleted Uranium is nothing but regular Uranium with a slightly higher U238 to U235 ratio, and is a healthy source of ionizing radiation. Your gonads will love you for the extra attention to their well being!
Depleted Uranium is used in weaponry not necessarily because of its density, but because it enjoys a combination of 'desirable' properties: density of 19.50, extreme hardness, high flamability, and high toxicity. Are you sure you want some of it in your living room?
Lots cheaper, safer, and for our purpose just as hard and heavy is good old Tungsten (W), with a density of 19.25, or if you want to be exotic, try Iridium (Ir) with a wapping density of 22.6. Please let me know if any company introduces an isolation platform ballasted with depleted Uranium. I'll make it a point to shop where that brand is not carried. |
TBG, Kuzma uses a silcone, fluid damped isolator in their Reference Turntable to excellent effect. I've not used another fluid (apart from air) system.
"...or you could partially fill the bladders with fluids as Kworks does. Filling the center with sand would also lower the resonant frequency. |
Hey Geoff, I must agree. Cheers and Happy Holidays. Sorry I was not trying to knock you or anything else. Just a good lively debate. Thanks for keeping me on my toes.
Depleted uranium is a great idea, it may also have many other sonic benefits. ;-) |
J-badov - It appears you have your concepts of isolation and I have mine. Nothing wrong with that and I agree, no need for pissing contest. There are many ways to skin a cat.
I designed Nimbus platform, a 6 DOF sub 1.0 Hz device about 8 years ago. Nimbus is the world's only single air spring iso stand. For ballast for the Nimbus I use steel - as you say: inexpensive and well-suited to the task. Depleted uranium would be my next choice :-) |
Hey Geoff with out getting into a pissing match here. We may be talking about two different things.
I am not discussing the resonant frequency here. I am discussing the use of mass to keep the platform in place. Things at rest tend to stay at rest. The higher the mass the more extenal force it takes to move the object.
If the platform were directly coupled to a stand via cones etc. the seismic churning of the earth will disturb the platform. The better the isolation the less the transmitted force. The larger mass simply keeps in place. With out the mass the transmitted forces will allow the platform to move sympathetically with the seismic vibrations.
As for the density of the materials used, VP utilizes a large billet of steel underneath to make up the 150 lbs this thing weighs. A denser material would be much more expensive and in many case more difficult to work with.
Design of industrial and institutional vibration platforms is not the simple mass-on-spring you seem to think it is. They employ over 15 PE's on staff. Check out many of the vibration and acoustic control companies around and you will find that most of these companies are made up of PHD's. Not because they want to look important but because it is a very difficult field to understand.
If it were as easy as you seem to think it is they would just employ a couple simple dense slabs of Corian separted by a couple of springs. Or every one would just use two pieces of MDF with a Thermarest mat in between.
Rest assured my textbooks are well dusted. I am PE Mechanical Engineer and work with a number of Vibration consultants on my projects on a daily basis. |
I would use abs. minimum no. of bladders (of correct geometry) -- that is one sure way to lower resonant frequency and improve performance...fluids in bladders could overdamp things... haven't tried it, might be worth a shot, but generally don't like fluids or sand... |
Geoffkait, or you could partially fill the bladders with fluids as Kworks does. Filling the center with sand would also lower the resonant frequency. |
j-badov, the equivalent performance (resonant frequency) for the VP would be obtained by simultaneously *reducing* the mass and reducing the spring rate of the thin-skin bladders.
Therefore, by inspection, mass cannot be the *key* to the design of the mass-on-spring isolating system you seem to think it is.
Also, a larger mass doesn't necessarily require more surface area as higher density of mass will solve that particular problem.
Maybe dust off the old university textbooks, eh? :-) |
Geoffkait
Nice to know that four course on vibration I took in university can be boiled down to one easy sentence Geoff. It is far more complex in study than what you have stated. It has everything to do with inertia.
"The heavy mass used in Vibraplane is employed to lower the resonant freq. of the "mass on spring" system and has nothing whatsoever to do with inertia, as you suggested. System resonant frequency is a (strict) function of the Sq. Root of spring rate over the mass."
What you talk of is a simple machine, a text book example not a real world application. What you talk of is a single degree of freedom spring and mass system. It does not particularly apply. Yes, additonal mass will lower the resonant frequency of the platform but is not the sole or most important reason for the mass. You could simply damp, clamp and change the resonant frequency with out the mass. You have completely ignored Newton and Kinetics all in one foul swoop. How about your transmission ratios, harmonic ground motion, forced periodic motion etc.?
"Thus, if vibraplane employed an even heavier mass, all things being equal, it would be an even better isolator. But not because of the reason you gave."
Beg to differ here sir. A larger mass requires larger surface areas and will not necessarily translate to better isolation. It introduces another set of issues. It is a large reason as to why it operates the way it does. Mass limits movement the isolators decouple from the source of the vibration. It is similar in operation to an inertia base under large rotating pieces of equipment, conversly though they are trying to limit the vibration transmitted into a building. Mass is key in keeping things in place and limiting both movement and transmission of vibration. |
theaudiotweak: in the case of our Promethean & Nimbus, we use selective frequency damping of the top plate to remove residual vibration due to seismic type, component-induced or airborne type. We also prefer the extremely hard dh (diamond hardness) cones for lightning-fast energy transfer between component & plate/damper.
Geoff Kait, Machina Dynamica |
Years ago I tried many shelves and stands. The Manas proved superior to all others. I did later find the Neuance shelves on the Mana stands were superior to the glass top shelf provided. Later I found the Acapella shelves to be better yet. Then came the Halcyonic active isolators. Under the universal player and my turntable, there is nothing even close. They are too expensive for me to use elsewhere, however. I will not even try them under my amp as I am afraid I would go broke. |
Something to keep in mind here are self induced internal resonaces generated by the electronics themselves as well as airborne resonance generated by the speakers and regenerated by the room. How is that isolated? Tom |
j-badov - The heavy mass used in Vibraplane is employed to lower the resonant freq. of the "mass on spring" system and has nothing whatsoever to do with inertia, as you suggested. System resonant frequency is a (strict) function of the Sq. Root of spring rate over the mass.
Thus, if vibraplane employed an even heavier mass, all things being equal, it would be an even better isolator. But not because of the reason you gave.
~ cheers |
Geoffkait - I can see where you are a little confused and having difficulty understanding seismic isolation.
"If what you said were actually true, the mass of the entite house (much more than 150 lb) would provide sufficient isolation."
We are talking about isolated mass here Geoff. The house like the Silent running is directly coupled to the earth, the source of the vibration. When you isolate and decouple an object properly it must have mass in order to stay put. So the earth vibrates away while the platform stays in place, partly because of the mass of the platform and partly due to the isolation. This is why they operate so well.
"Furthermore, "electron microscopes," as a class, are not the end all do-all devices you suggest; in the overall scheme of things their performance is good but not great. "
Alright, but if they are not isolated proper the performance is greatly diminished. It's not the resolution of the device I am talking about here it is increase in performance to enhance usability. Obviously the move sensitive the device the more important the isolation to obtain results. A great deal of the Vibraplanes are used in clinical, industrial and research applications where under normal consditions you will not yeild results.
Take a look at SOS's follow up response. It has a very clear indication of how the unit is designed. |
First let me thank the over 5000 customers now using the Vibraplane for their isolation needs. It has been a real pleasure to make so many customers enjoy their systems more than ever.
For those that are not clear on how the Vibraplane works, compared to "standard" isolation products, let me see if this might help:
Conventional isolators are constructed using metal springs or rubber blocks. They have low internal damping, and tend to be effective only at frequencies near 10 Hz. Also, they provide almost no isolation at frequencies above 30 Hz because of harmonic standing waves occurring at sonic velocities in the metal or rubber.
The VIBRAPLANE design concept eliminates the metal springs and or rubber blocks used in conventional isolator designs. The VIBRAPLANE utilizes a frictionless rolling diaphragm air seal to support a load carrying piston in conjunction with dual air chambers as the spring and damping medium. The air spring stiffness is a function of the combined air volume of the dual chambers. This conveniently provides the required very low stiffness to obtain the desired very low natural frequency necessary for high efficiency isolation. Harmonic standing waves cannot occur in the VIBRAPLANE System due to its dual air chamber internal damping design.
The VIBRAPLANE utilizes a unique proprietary VARIFLO orifice design for flow control between air chambers, and therefore, better damping control is realized both high and low amplitudes and frequencies. This design ensures an even air flow at all amplitudes without choking, thereby maintaining the effectiveness of both (airspring) chamber volumes.
It can easily be shown that VARIFLO damping incorporates a filtering spring. This contrasts with vibrations in a conventional isolator model where the damper is direct coupled to the mass and causes a loss of isolation at high frequencies. The VARIFLO damping (air) spring effectively decouples the damper at high frequencies and therefore no isolation is lost where high damping forces would tend to reduce efficiency in a conventional isolator.
Zero Friction
The VIBRAPLANE design uses a thin wall frictionless rolling diaphragm to support the (airspring) piston. This unique design prevents friction locking, which is a principle cause of loss of isolation for low frequency, micro-inch disturbances in conventional Isolators.
The dual chamber design of the VIBRAPLANE produces a unique optimization of its vibration Transmissibility performance. At low frequencies the air volume in both air chambers is effective, resulting in large air volume and a soft low natural frequency system. This is represented by the left branch of the Transmissibility curve. At high frequencies, the orifice gradually restricts the air flow and eventually only the small chamber is effective with a resulting stiffening of the system. This action is represented by the right branch of the Transmissibility curve. Our proprietary orifice design is amplitude sensitive and configured to produce the optimum transmissibility bounded by the left and right branches. The VIBRAPLANE thus affords the ideal conditions of maximum damping at resonance and minimum damping at high frequencies for better isolation than possible, using conventional isolation systems.
Horizontal vibrations (in buildings) average 25% to 30% of the vertical and are usually less critical. Nevertheless, the VIBRAPLANE System includes a Horizontal Isolation Piston to provide isolation for any vibration environment regardless of direction.
The piston is internally constructed with rubber-in-shear elements that simultaneously translate and rock in a low frequency coupled response action to horizontal inputs. The Vibraplane Platforms use an onmi-directional low frequency pendulum system to eliminate horizontal vibrations.
Finanlly, structural damping is used throughout which eliminates the ringing caused by resonances in the frame, table, and platform structures external to the VIBRAPLANE airspring suspension system. All structures experience resonance no matter how stiff or massive. Damping augmentation is the most efficient means to dissipate vibration energy,
Hope this has been helpful. There are many products now on the market, all help and can be "heard". Please feel free to e-mail us off-line for further information.
A very Happy and SOUND Holiday season to all........
Steve
SOS |
J- Badov - If what you said were actually true, the mass of the entite house (much more than 150 lb) would provide sufficient isolation. Furthermore, "electron microscopes," as a class, are not the end all do-all devices you suggest; in the overall scheme of things their performance is good but not great.
~ cheers |
Also created for laboratory environments are the active Halcyonics isolation platforms. TBG has had a great experience with them. |
No doubt here that the Vibraplane is the best isolation device on the market. That being said there are a couple of reasons for this. In order to isolate properly you must have a combination of mass and isolation. You must decouple from the surface that is vibrating in both the Horizontal and vertical planes. The Vibraplane addresses both issues. It weighs in at 150 lbs. Things at rest tend to stay at rest, ask Newton. It has a highly damped air suspension system. This isolates down to an astonishing 2.5 hz. The footers used on the Vibraplane use an ingenious slip plate technology isolating in the Horizontal Plane!!!!
There is a reason that the worlds scientific community uses Vibraplanes and a handful of other manufactures for the test equipment. IT WORKS!!! They are not direct coupled plates. Their R&D DEPENDS on results!! I've yet to hear about an electron microscope being used on a Silent Running Platform.
I've used both and while the Silent Running is very good and works well it fails in comparison to the Vibraplane. It is an audiophile tweak, where the Vibraplane is a real world industry performer.
I am a dealer for the product because it is the best and there is nothing else out there like it. We know that ADOG is a dealer for the Silent Running. Jeff, we would all benefit with a little more transparancy from your posts. We know you have an axe to grind. |
Sorry, I was distracted & hit the submit button. Insurance guys cannot do more than one thing at a time. The best as always is to see & try if possible. It is unfortunate that
some play games & discourage others. I have seen it many times over the years. This is a hobby & we should try to help each other & offer our personal experiences....... Yet over a couple of potential sales & a few dollars we have people playing games. Looking back, I am sorry that I have only ever posted on two topics, but I am glad I stumbled upon this one. I will make an effort to find the time to participate more often. Most audiophiles are great folks. We can all learn from one another. We should not let a few "bad apples" discourage us. Especially those just coming into the hobby who should get good advice & honest answers. It is common courtesy & FUN!!
All the best to all for the Holidays.
Best Regards, Nick. |
