i have legacy focus and im burning in a set of audioart sc5 speaker cables and they seem nice so far ,real cheap to |
"Wonder how many people / AP users i pissed off with that one??? "
Thanks Sean for sharing with us your experience.
Some wise men did say silence is golden but sometimes a little dissentient opinion helps. |
I used the AP Oval 9's when they first came out. Ran them for well over 500 hours with music playing non-stop 24/7. They were connected to a high powered amplifier directly driving very low impedance, very low sensitivity full range speakers. There was no crossover to get in the way of what the amplifier produced and what the speaker tried to reproduce, making for the shortest, most direct path possible. That is, with the exception of "active" loudspeakers. Then again, one wouldn't need speaker cables for those anyway : )
Due to the very low sensitivity and very low impedance, i was forced to pass much more signal through the cabling than a normal person would have, just to get the speakers to "move". On top of that, these cables were previously used, so they had been "pre-conditioned" prior to my use. For how long or at what amplitude, i have no idea. In other words, these cables should have been "fully broken in".
After all of that, i found the top end of these cables to be phenomenally tizzy sounding. The treble was very smeared, bright and pronounced. On the other end of the spectrum, the bass was phenomenally weak, lacking in output and extension. The combo of these two gave me the effective sonics of a very large and high powered transistor radio. It was almost as if someone had taken a transistor radio, cranked the treble and turned down the bass. NO impact what so ever. To be fair here, the midrange was quite good and i didn't really have any major problems with it.
When i finally took the AP Oval 9's out of the system, my girlfriend ( at the time ) had just run up to the store and was not present. She had no idea what i was doing or what i was about to do. Upon returning back from the store, she walked into the room where this system was playing and asked "what did you do to the stereo?". I asked her "why do you ask that?". Her response was "because it sounds SO much better". In other words, changing the speaker cables in this system was HIGHLY audible, even under what were essentially "blind" listening conditions to a "non-audiophile". I can't remember if i had replaced them with some Goertz or if i was trying out some YBA Diamond speaker cabling at that time, but either way, whatever i replaced it with was FAR superior.
To be blunt, my opinion is that the AP Oval 9's were probably the most unlistenable speaker cables that i've ever had in my house. After hearing them at my house in my systems, i offered them to my Brother to listen to in his system to see what he thought of them. He refused and said that he was not going to waste his time. His next comment was that i should throw them out into the garbage, where they belonged.
Obviously, this is just my opinion, but YOU asked : ) Sean
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PS... Wonder how many people / AP users i pissed off with that one??? |
I am curious of how the Analysis Plus Oval 9 would compare with the contenders mentioned, in particular the Alpha Core MI2 and Reality Cable. Some say the Oval 9 is affordable reference and depending on length if buy used may still be within reach of the poster's price range. Anyone has a chance to compare ? |
Once in a very rare while a set of Apex signature or Apex ICTL speaker cables will go on sale on Audiogon or Ebay for around this price or less if the seller doesn't know the brand or quality. If you can find them grab them. Ebay recently had a 15' pair for very little. I would have bought them but I already have 3 sets. Great power, open, neutral and huge soundstage. IMHO, I doubt you will find anything better at $1000+ . |
One more, AH! speaker cables from Upscale Audio. For the price they make my system sing. |
Sounds great , thank you . |
This is a valuable thread. Years ago I bought/tried a pair of new Goertz speaker cables MI ? (can't remember which model) to run between a Classe CA 200 & a pair of ML SL-3's & nearly fried my amp. As I remember at the time there was no mention of a 'zobel' when I bought the cables, only after I called & questioned the mfgr about this predicament. wish I had had this thread back then. |
IMHO, the Alpha-Core Goertz are probably the least likely of speaker cables to "'color' the signal", which you may or may not appreciate. |
The "impedance compensation networks" or "Zobel's" as supplied by Goertz are not wired in series with the signal. They are placed across the speaker terminals in parallel with the signal path. They only come into play at frequencies WAY beyond audibility and are only used to help stabilize the amp that they are connected to. These are in NO WAYS similar in design to MIT's, Transparent's or other cabling with networks of "filters" built in. Sean
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Can anyone comment on the 'Zoble' or impedance compensation network ? I am using speakers that do not have a crossover network and have been advised , by the manufacturer , not to use any filtering type cables as they would 'color' the signal . The speakers are Reference 3a De Capo i . |
Go with the Alpha Core, I have heard both and while the Reality Cables are very good, I prefer their ICs over their speaker cables. |
Alpha-Core offers a generous free trial period with free Zobels! |
OK, thanks for all the replies.
At this point, the two choices I am debating are the Straley Reality cables vs. the Alpha Core Goertz MI2. Both are getting great reviews in their price range.
Decisions, decisions... |
As a point of reference, I have always recommended the use of MI-2 Veracity's over the MI-3 Divinity's. The MI-3's are too low in nominal impedance for most systems, causing excess current to flow. Since most amps aren't up to the task, the end result is that they tend to "muddy" the sound a bit, losing clarity, focus and definition as compared to the MI-2 Veracity's.
All of this is due to the slightly higher nominal impedance of the MI-2's ( as compared to the MI-3's ), which adds a slight "buffer" to the what the amp sees. As we all know, the difference between just a few ohms ( at amplifier load / speaker level ) can make for a BIG difference in both performance and stability.
For that matter, the MI-2's may even be too low in nominal impedance for some really "anemic" amplifiers. If such is the case, then the next step would be the Goertz MI-1's. This is a 13 gauge cable, which is heavy enough for most short runs. By "short", i'm talking about 6' - 8' or so.
As with all of the Goertz cabling, i ALWAYS recommend using their impedance compensation networks, regardless of whether you or Goertz think you need them. Obviously, one must pick and use what they think works best in their system. After all, you're the only one that HAS to listen to it on a regular basis. Sean
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Tough to beat the MI2 sound for anywhere near the money. Do be aware that the MI2s can be a PITA to run and dress cleanly - could be a WAF thing if they are in plain view... |
I have signal cable speaker cables that I bought a few years back. I love the craftsmanship and the sound. There was quite a buzz around here a few years ago about them.
Awesome product at a great price in my opinion.
signalcable.com |
No problem Marc, go ahead and drop me a line. Just be a bit patient as i sometimes get more email than i know what to do with : ) Sean
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Marc, Your Nak receiver may have amp circuitry borrowed from the Nelson Pass "stasis" design originally for classic Threshold amp. If so, there is a lot of quality ready to be unveiled by your speaker cables.
My own experience switching from Alpha-Core "Big Boy" MI-3 "Divinity" (I'm not making up their terminology!) to Reality is of a better "realism" due to more vocal and instrumental detail, and better three dimensional soundstage placement cues. My transmission line bass (down to 28Hz) has better texture and pitch definition.
Perhaps, the twenty day money back home trial offered by Gregg of Reality will tilt you toward trying it.
Alpha-Core is outstanding, yet the comparison favored Reality in my particular listening situation. |
Sean, you are about to convince me on the Alpha Core MI-2 Veracity!
Also, I would be very interested in your modifications of the Legacy 1s. Did this have to do with the capacitors?
If you are willing, I'd like to e-mail you regarding this.
Thanks,
Marc |
After I performed thousands of dollars worth of upgrades to my Father's system, I changed his speaker cabling. We went from some Audioquest stuff ( can't remember the model ) to Goertz MI-2 Veracity. Upon doing so, my Father exclaimed "that speaker cable made more of a difference than ALL of the other "upgrades" put together !!!". Needless to say, he was pretty happy with the results.
While the system did come to life and sounded FAR more natural than it ever had before, what really happened is that all of the other upgrades were being "stifled" by the old speaker cabling. Once some good cabling was installed, the benefits of all of the other upgrades could now be heard. As such, it "seemed" like the cabling made the biggest difference by itself, but it truly was a culmination of upgrades that led to the final event. Changing to the Goertz MI-2 Veracity's was simply the crowning achievement of it all.
As a point of reference, the speakers in this system were Legacy 1's, which was the fore-runner to the Classics. Bill Dudleston himself had assembled these for my Father. My Brother and I later modified them in drastic fashion. The improvements were even more staggering than all of the other system upgrades prior to that. Sean
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PS... one should ALWAYS use the impedance compensation network that Goertz will supply free of charge for their speaker cabling, whether you think you need it or not. |
Yes, I also had heard great things about the Alpha-Core MI2, but there is some concern about impedance of the cable being a problem for certain amps. I don't know if this would likely be any problem for a standard receiver.
D_edwards,
This is for an extra A/V system in the back room of the house. I am using it for some stereo music listening, and it currently has some old Monster speaker cables with what appear to be hundreds of strands, which I believe to be "smearing" the sound.
As to the Nak receiver, first, I am not in a position to replace it, and, second, it previously was used in the front system with the Legacy Signature IIs, connected with Tara Labs RSC speaker cables, and sounded quite nice. That is my rational for thinking I can improve my sound significantly with some better cables. |
Alpha Core Goertz MI2 is the best easily in my experience that includes Kimber 8TC and Nordost Blue Heaven in the $200 used arena... |
Second the Alpha Core Goertz MI-2 Veracity. Hard to beat at it's price point. |
My "stock" recommendation for speaker cable in your price bracket is Kimber Kable 4TC or 8TC. They have both been positively reviewed in many audio mags, and have proven compatible with a very wide range of systems. I can attest to their good performance having owned both for types for many years.
The other choice that is well worth considering is Alpha-Core Goertz MI2. You can learn more about these fine speaker cables from their Goertz Audio web site: http://www.goertzaudio.com/ |
Yeah a Matching center channel and a subwoofer.
Cables make almost no difference with your current system and I thought it was a Sony receiver?
$200 for cables in your situation is a waste of valuable $$$ |
depending on length...look into: Naim NACA5, Nordost Blue Heaven, AuidoQuest BedRock, among others. Good luck. |
