Turbofc3s,
Technically, the original non mkii ref1000's are essentially stock Icepower modules in a nice box like many and the current resale prices reflect that. I would not expect much if any difference, and an apples/apples comparison.
mkiis have clearly identifiable technical differences visible inside in an aditional input circuit (benefit mainly with tube pre-amps and similar to Wyred) and power supply supply circuit, which typically only the more expensive Class D amps do.
Despite the nice looking package with good build quality, I would expect BC would catch some flack for the prices they asked for their original Icepower amps in comparison to others. I guess the sound quality and target audience enabled this.
Before I bought my ref1000mkiis used, I had the seller open them up and send me internal photos in order to make sure that they were what was advertised, since cosmetically, on the outside they are mostly identical, except for the model label, which I would not necessarily trust alone in that I am very suspicious of a lot of dealings that goes on on the internet these days, especially when attractive pricing is apparent. |
Not MkII's, but I had a pair of Bel 1000 Mk1's and compared side by side - same system, same room - with a D Sonic M1000S for over 2 weeks, and there was no difference that I could detect. As soon as I'd think I heard something different, I had my wife blind switch on me and it became clear they were identical. After that I sold the Bel Canto's and purchased the D-Sonic.
Later I added a 2nd identical D-Sonic because I wanted to mod one and have a stock one to compare. I had Chris at BPT make quite a few mods, and while nothing mind blowing happened, it did reduce noise floor significantly and gave a deeper black background and a more focused center image, along with a small bit better micro-detail.
Unless you just like the look, I can't see why you'd by the Bel Canto if ICE is what you're looking to try. Dennis at D-Sonic gives fantastic support as well. |
So I wonder has anyone who owned BC ref1000mkII monoblocks actually heard and switched to similar Wyred or other less expensive Icepower amps?
If so, also I'd be interested in knowing the speakers and pre-amp used as well.
Thanks in advance. |
I remember the TAS review of the 2 amps. In between the lines it seemed to say they both were the same, but we all know the saying "Don't bite the hand that feeds you." |
" Let's go back to the comparison between Bel Canto and Wyred 4 Sound. "
About the year ago, TAS published review of Bel Canto Ref 1000 (MkI or MkII) and Wyred4Sound (model?) and reviewer liked more Bel Canto. You will have to search for more details.
Now, if Macdadtexas listen to early models of Musician III (or Musician II) then I agree with him 100%. I bought my Musician III fall of 2004, one of the first, and while I loved its control it was indeed very bright for my ears. Now, of course, its Mk2 and with all upgardes it, in onew word: "silky"
All The Best |
Let's go back to the comparison between Bel Canto and Wyred 4 Sound. |
Actually, I have heard both, and the Magtech is built specifically with hard to drive loads, such as Magnepan's in mind. I love the amps, they just are more special in my opinion with certain speakers, which in most instances are true for any amp.
Well, except for Pass and ARC amps, which have always sounded great with whatever they have been hooked up to when I have heard them. |
I think it sounds best with hard to drive loads. With average or easily driven loads, the amps sound just average. Macdadtexas, Sanders makes both an ESL amp and the Magtech amp, which is a different design, more expensive, and built for conventional speakers. I wonder if your experience might have been with the ESL amp. |
Sanders Sound (and Innersound before it) is a very well known and respected audio company. They make great gear. I think it sounds best with hard to drive loads. With average or easily driven loads, the amps sound just average. But with the Sanders Sound speakers, or Soundlabs, Martin Logans, other panels or hard to drive speakers, stellar. |
Before I get accused of being a shill for Sanders Sound Systems I want everyone to know that I have no connection (financial or otherwise with Sanders Sound Systems) I guess the only thing that we have in common is that we are both retired military men. He from the Navy and I am Army retired. I sent a few off the audiogon website recommendations to people who were looking for a good amp and I had an audiogoner call me a nut. To each his own said Harold as he kissed the cow. Let the good times roll. |
I have owned McIntosh MC-240, McIntosh Mc-275, Spectral DM-200, NRG (forget the model number), Marantz 7B, Leak Stereo 20, Audio Research D-76, D-76A, Krell FPB-200, Edge M8M, Luminance Audio (big mistake), McIntosh MC-402. Have been an audio-nut since 1958. About 6 months ago I tried a Sanders Sound Systems Magtech amp (they have a 30 day trial period) and I was absolutely amazed at the sound of this amp. I liked it so well that I bought the companion Slim Line Stage preamp. I drive the Duntech Sovereigns and I have never been as satisfied in my long audio career as I am now. I know that I will be ridiculed by some of the audiogon experts, but I have bought my last amp and preamp and that's the gospel. IMHO the Sanders equipment is the best kept secret in the audio world. And it is also fairly priced. Not the outrageous prices charged by many manufacturers and it comes with a lifetime warranty. Enjoy the music friends. |
The anti-Spectron police is in the house! |
Spectron-Police on Patrol, yes I have owned the Spectron's along with many other amps, and they sound bright. Not just in my system, but in every system I have heard. If you like that sound, knock yourself out.
Ellyjr, I love he Cary's with my gear, but in this price range, the best amp I have heard with the B & W's is the McIntosh 501's which I bought for my Maggies, hated, and sold to a friend with your B & W's. They sound STELLAR together. Huge sound, but very detailed. A great match. We have tried my Cary's with the B & W's and the McIntosh beat it. |
" Spectron-Police, in the house!!"
Macdadtexas, you really think that you can place Spectron amps in the category "below average" and not to be asked about quality of your system or your perception of "bright" sound ????
I can undertsand that one can prefer amp X or Y over Spectron - its very personal issue. However, if you hear sound as "bright" it can be only because Spectron amplifies everything that gone into it without euphonic colorations. Remember GIGO principle ? Garbage in....garbage out.
May be this combination of accuracy and musicality of Spectron amps is the reason that so many speakers builders like Albert Von Schweikert, Anthony Gally etc, so many recording engineers, so many musicians and other professionals , choose Spectron - "a piece of wire with gain" as per Mark Burnett (spl?) from Audiocom (inventor of Ultraclock).
I have extremely power hungry and extraordinary accurare speakers (Sasha by Wilson) and my Spectrons, with right preamp and front end, are much better (for my personal taste of course) then even Pass Lab XA200.5 I auditioned at the Sasha dealer. - it controls as "Iron Fist in Velvet Glove"
Mike |
Thank you for all your response.
Macdadtexas I see that you have the Cary MB500. I red a lot of good things about these amps. How do they compare to JC1's, BC RF1000mk2 and Wyred SX1000?
Thank you |
Spectron-Police, in the house!! |
Macdadtexas,
As you can read, Dob didn't suggest Spectron amps, yet you decided to go with the uncalled for comment.
I'm driving your same speakers, Maggies 3.6r, with the Spectron monoblocks and I can assure you that they are not bright. I've even used a TVC and the Benchmark DAC as preamps and I could not make the monoblocks sound bright. Any detected brightness must be somewhere else in the system.
I agree with others that JC-1 are great amps. I would probably change something else in the system if you would like to change the sound.
Regards,
|
Oh no, the Cult of Spectron has entered the fray. I have never understood the cult around these below avg Class D amps. They are the very definition of BRIGHT to me, with every speaker I have heard them with, and they are SO overpriced for Class D amps. I guess if you have goo-y warm sweet speakers they would moderate them, but please, let's not get the Spectron-police in the discussion, or it will ever end.
If you want to move up the Class D food chain, and you try the Spectron's, please also try a Sanders Sound amp, which is the real deal. |
I own B&W 802 Diamond and I have tried a number of amps inlcuding JC-1. I am driving them with Spectron monoblocks and these, in turn, are driven by Joule-Electra all tube LA-300ME preamp and I am immensely happy.
Regarding your specific question: Bel Canto has better power supply (additional bank of electralitic capacitors) but Wyred uses the latest geberation of mass produced ICE power module and thus a but better in midrange then Ref 1000 Mk2. Choose
You have great speakers, and I do not understand why you want to change one, IMO, rather average amp you own (JC-1) to, IMO, another equlally average Ref 1000 Mk2 or Wyred4 sound... save on electrical bill?
Good Luck With Your Search |
Agree with Mac.You have nice amps and bit more watts won't make up for softer bass and non-class A harmonics ( and I sold B&W's for 6 years and they are already a bit warm).Clarity I'd say neither has what JC1's have.Cut down your electric bill though.
Cheers
Chazz |
I like all of these amps, but would be surprised it you liked either of those Class D amps with your B & W's as much as you like the JC-1's. |
they both should do quite well.
the bcs have a beefed up power supply that may offer more punch and clarity overall but for a premium. |
