bass in the room

Hi Flnrlamb you said, "I would start by playing some test tones(bass) through your sytem, and measure with a Sound Level meter (yes, EVERY audio-enthusiest needs a Radio Shack SPL - NEEEEEEDS!). This will tell you "which" frequency-response holes you have in your system. Then, you need to find out where they are, and place either, and/or both the speakers and your seat where those AREN'T!"

Why not recommend to him the FREE program at Home Theater Shack known as the Room EQ Wizard. All you need is the Radio Shack meter and the free program and in about 4 seconds it shows you your in room freq response amongst other things such as waterfall plots and spectrum analyser etc..

Bob

I like what many are suggesting and hinting at here. Yes, you are dealing with a game of "find that frequency response" here!
I would start by playing some test tones(bass) through your sytem, and measure with a Sound Level meter (yes, EVERY audio-enthusiest needs a Radio Shack SPL - NEEEEEEDS!). This will tell you "which" frequency-response holes you have in your system. Then, you need to find out where they are, and place either, and/or both the speakers and your seat where those AREN'T!
Your goal is flat('ish) frequency response from the speakers and sub from the listening position(s), as a foundation, yes. Without some semblence of "balance" here, you'll never have an accurate, dynamic, well balanced, hi-fidelity fundamental sound from your system - and you'll be up and down on the volume, with wither holes or nasty irritating peaks to the sound, indeed.
In your case, without reading too much of what you wrote, sounds like either your sub and/or your speakers, in relation to your seat(s) are sitting in a null, or nulls.
I might recommend both placing the sub where your ears will be seated, and moving around the room in places where you are considering locating the sub, to find the most solid, even, non-boomy, fast, musical, dynamic spot for the sub (playiing some solid bass material, and some test discs to measure, sure). Also, do the same for the speakers - making sure you have solid bass where the speakers and sub cross, too.
You can start with the sub/speakers in a corner, and then play some frequency response test discs - available in lots of spots around the web - and then move/listen/measure around the room where you can place your seat(s), to find a good response location, and where all the nulls are (as to avoid).
yes, it's a process - even more so without meters and instrumentation, for an expedited process. Otherwise, take your time. The results are WELL worth it...

"Getting a Radio Shack meter and taking measurements, recording them, using one of the spreadsheets that help you correct the inaccuracy of the meter and moving the sub around is better. Check out the many posts here on"

Or you coud get Room EQ Wizard for free at the Home Theater Shack and show us the results.

Bob

No, actually, I was joking, thinking of what my very patient wife would say to bass traps in the hallway. I would probably be beaten over the head with them! I have found that using a decibel meter and one of the spreadsheets for bass frequencies can help. Smoothing out a sub's frequency responses is very labor intensive. I still think you should try the trick of placing the sub where you sit and walking around to find the "best" sound from the sub. Then, put the sub there. Getting a Radio Shack meter and taking measurements, recording them, using one of the spreadsheets that help you correct the inaccuracy of the meter and moving the sub around is better. Check out the many posts here on Audiogon. I am no guru. Try out all the methods. Remember to have fun!

Tgrisham,
my sub was in the nw corner from the left speaker slightly behind facing to the center, and pointing the hallway. yesterday, I turned away from the center, parallel to the left wall, and it's so much better now, it's still there but not as much
would you suggest to put some traps in the hallway

I am imagining a grouping of bass traps in the hallway. Hmmm...... That should go over well.

Rhljazz, I took a look at your system, my room is much wide and more open.
Tgrisham,
I think you are absolutely correct, I just walked thru my hallway back and forth, and it's really strong right at the midway. and also, I have a 20' corridor connecting it with the front door, it's a kind of T-shape intersection

wow, so many opinions, thanks
I actually moved from my family room with shy of 8' ceilings to the living room with vaulted ceilings,(the room itself is 18x35 combined with dining area before it turns, and vaulted ceiling stops at about 18' from the front of the house), the difference was huge, I thought because soundwaves don't bounce off the ceiling, it's become more open, 3-d sound, but all that was before I bought REL

You could try the old method of putting the sub where you sit and taking measurement around the room to find the best place to put the sub. It might be in a spot you haven't thought of. Bass nodes are funny things and hard to predict. Also, the walls in your hallway may be reflecting bass in several directions, thereby increasing certain frequencies.

I had/have a similar problem. In my crummy room (vaulted ceiling, open at the top to kitchen/dining area) the N802's exhibited a pronounced dip at 60-70hz which robbed the bass of impact. The sub doesn't help because it reinforces the areas where the N802 is already strong (below 40hz). So far, I have never found a solution.

Right now I'm trying different speakers and room treatments. The new speakers don't go as low in the bass which should give more flexibility in maximizing placement of the REL B3 to achieve the bass I'm looking for.

My perception of room treatment is that it can alter minor problems but not correct major frequency abberations.

You might experiment with different subwoofer placement.

L-shaped rooms are bad for proper acoustics, and cathedral ceilings are bad for proper acoustics. You have 2 bad strikes against this setup. If you can't move the system to a different room, you have to just work with what you have. I had the same setup in my previous house. I had an acoustic engineering company do very expensive sound management installations. In the end the results were good but expensive and professionally done, with little wife acceptance.

How deep's the primary null at your listening position and at what frequency? Just how "ragged" is the frequency response at your listening position between 30Hz-150Hz? If significant, move your sub or listening position (or both - whatever's most convenient) to where things measure best. If that's not feasible/sufficiently corrective, EQ with a Rives Parc ahead of your sub. Bass traps will help somewhat, but good ones (ASC full rounds, etc) are expensive and were far from curative with my tray ceiling. I run stereo subs with reasonable output above 100Hz so they are kept alongside the mains, and I am unwilling to change my listening position; therefore I had to bite the bullet for a PARC. Kept ahead of subs only, it's transparent and reasonably effective in a very bad room for bass.