Basis Super Arm 9

As always thanks for the feedback.  It has been my experience that "jaw dropping" improvement does not happen at this level but is more toward marginal/incremental......and even this level of improvement usually costs quite a bit.  I've only had my rig for 4 months and the Umami Red only has 44 hours on it so logically I should chill and get to know it a little better but I know I won't.  I also believe that the super arm would be optimized for a Basis table so a different manufacturers arm would not be "plan A."  Jperry thanks for the link btw.  Talking with Basis directly the super arm provides an increase in detail including bass definition over the Vector 4.  Ultimately it'll come down to if I'm willing to pay for the improvement!  I appreciate the people who take the time to share their opinions.  Although my research may not have been all encompassing, I feel real good about the Basis table as well as potentially upgrading to the Super arm, as I did not uncover any negative feedback about the product, company, or service!

@dover, the Superarm 9 was on what I think was a 2802 with a Vector on the other position. They both had a My Sonic Labs cartridge but I'm not sure which models. They may have been the same cartridge. I could not hear a difference beyond a slight difference in gain. As for the comparison with a Schroder CB, I have not had them in the same room together on the same system with the same cartridge so I can not say if there is a sonic difference or not. The Schroder is a better arm by design. Frank Schroder may be the preeminent tonearm designer a this moment. I have already highlighted the differences between the Superarm 9 and the CB which is not even Schroder's best tonearm. Mark Dohmann demonstrates the Helix with a CB. Peter Ledermann is having Schroder design an arm specifically for Soundsmith. Then if you consider that the Superarm 9 costs $17 large and the CB $5000 then there is no contest. An arm is no good if very few of us can afford it. I had several discussions with AJ and I would bet if he were still alive he would tell me to get the Vector 4, the Superarm being a waste of money. He was up there with Peter Ledermann as a great guy and good friends with David Fletcher (founder of SOTA and Sumiko) The Debut was indeed a fancy expensive version of David's design a design that SME eventually copied. I actually prefer the Debut to Basis's current line. It's suspension is inherently more stable but it is more expensive and difficult to make. AJ probably rolled over in his grave when they changed the design.

Not only is it not worth the cost but the Schroder CB is a better arm at a much better price.

So what turntable and cartridge was used when you heard a comparision of the Schroeder CB and the Basis Superarm.
What differences did you hear.

@dover , You bet I have! I live right around the corner from Basis. I have been there on several occasions and almost bought one of their turntables. My best friend has a Basis Debut with a Graham arm and was thinking of getting the Superarm 9. Has not made up his mind yet because he is having trouble with the cost to benefit ratio. The Basis is certainly a better arm than his Graham. The Vector is also better. So you can go ....... My opinion holds. Not only is it not worth the cost but the Schroder CB is a better arm at a much better price.

 I am sorry that you are unable to make intelligent evaluations on the design of tonearms but you do not have to take it out on others that can. Tonearms are not magic. They have to obey certain laws to function properly. These are well known and open to anyone who cares to study them.

I do not believe there will be an improvement in sonic performance worth the price. 

But you have never heard it, you cannot know this.
Most who have upgraded from the Vector say the arm is a substantial upgrade, including experienced reviewers.

You make many assumptions based on a small set of design parameters, but ignore many such as bearing quality, stiffness, ability to deal with energy from the cartridge, build quality to name a few.

More importantly you appear to make sweeping conclusions without having heard the product. Assessing the design parameters of an audio product is fine, but drawing definitive conclusions without any experience of the product is unfair in my view to any product.

Both Basis arms are excellent. They are not true unipivot arms. They are "Bipivot" arms. Torsion is controlled by a second bearing. They are neutral balance arms but their vertical bearings are above record level which means wart wow will be a little worse.  The question for xagwell is will the Superarm 9 make a significant sonic improvement? I certainly think it is a better arm by design as it is obviously stiffer. It's effective mass is probably a little bit higher just to look at it which might eliminate the most compliant cartridges.(no big deal) It is a better looking arm so pride in ownership will be better. But, I do not believe there will be an improvement in sonic performance worth the price. For what it is worth the Superarm 9 has a spindle to pivot distance of 222 mm, the Rega standard. It was in contention for me as it will fit on a Sota Turntable. I chose the Schroder CB. It also has a 222 mm spindle to pivot distance. Why? It is a better value. Because it has less peripheral mass it has a lower polar moment of inertia meaning it will follow record undulations better. It is also a neutral balance arm with the vertical bearing at the level of the record. Warp wow will be at a minimum. It has a frictionless antiskating device, the Superarm 9 does not. IMHO it has better bearings although that is arguable. It will fit on the 2800 a very nice turntable. Would the CB make a noticeable difference in sound quality? Probably not. These are all excellent arms. 

Nice job with the link jperry!   A lot of great information.  Love my vector 4.  

Below is a link to a thread with many comments about the Superarm 9 from people who own it, as well as comparisons to other tonearms they owned.

I had a Basis Vector 3 and it was a great tonearm.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/tonearm-options-for-basis-2800/post?highlight=superarm&po...

Robert Harley sure seems smitten, and he is the kind of experienced reviewer I have come to trust. Especially when he describes the sound the way he does. I am pretty sure the stabilizing bearing design he thinks nobody ever thought of is just a variation on what Mark Baker has been doing with Origin Live from well before the SA9. But whatever. Point is the sound he describes is the sound you want. 

I especially like the integral phono leads. My experience is the extra RCA connections and expense of having to find a suitable phono interconnect make the integral lead the way to go. The phono cartridge puts out such a faint signal, the last thing you want is to run it through half a dozen extra connections before it even hits the phono stage.

I can vouch for Harley's comment about the arm being a huge factor. My experience was different but similar. The Graham 2.2 was a really fine arm. No complaints. Waited a long time to upgrade, just seemed like how much better could another arm be? Then the Origin Live Conqueror with its integrated phono lead showed me- it is in a whole other league! 

That is the only suggestion I would make, see what you can learn about how SA9 compares with something like say a new Conqueror, or even better. You are in a price range where there are no bad arms. You are down to splitting hairs over just how much magic can you get. With pretty much all of them I think the answer is, "A lot!"