I've just come back from my friends house after 6 hours of listening to his 800Ss. Words alone are inadequate to explain. I heard more detail than I ever thought was possible from a pair of hi-fi speakers. They put my Infinity Renaissance 90s to shame in every respect except soundstage and I think that was due to room placement. It's actually hard to imagine being able to improve on that. Yes, the treble was initially just a bit hotter than it should have been but with a little bit of tweeking of the tow-in we were able to make it essentially perfect. It was the cleanest and most grain free treble I've ever heard, with the possible exception of an experience with the JM Lab Grand Utopia Be. The Bass was awesome but is just a tad polite due to a lack of running-in. Midrange detail and accuracy - staggering. I hope blubull is right about some bargain 800Ns or Ss, because I'm now in line for a pair.
BTW, my friend's over the moon. He'd been using a 25 year old pair of Acoustic Research AR-9s and an equally old Mosfet amp until last week. Now he's running a Krell FBP 600 into 800 Signatures. He was very disappointed to learn of the new model release a few days ago but this first listening session has convinced him he made a great decision.
I'll still be watching for reviews of the new models with interest and will definitely go for an audition when the local dealers receive the first shipment.
Thanks Washline for your comments. I can't disagree. |
Timpani, as I stated above, I think the new diamond series is overrated. I'd take the Signature 800 anyday over that series. I think your friend made a very wise decision. It's a great speaker--one of the top two or three I've ever heard. With the right gear, it's absolutely superb. |
I bought my 802s from an honest dealer. I knew of the change and I went with the 802s because they are outstanding speakers and the price was right. I bought them early this past summer and I could sell them for what I paid. New is fine, but quality is quality. Plus I have way more speaker for the dollar. |
Timpani
Regarding your friend ordering the 800Signatures two months ago.Really not fair on the dealers part of not warning him.I promise you the Dealer knew at that stage.The rumour of the new range started about five months ago.You can imagine what that does to the used value in the future.Same with the 805 Signature and the new 805s.805s same speaker as the 805 Signature but without the fancy finish ? Trickle down technology.....at a less expensive price.
800 range has also been expanded with more models.Now a 803s and 803D....
I feel they change their models to frequently,to many ranges and I feel the price increase is too much.
The positive,this makes B&W excellent used buys .....
Regards
Chris
(Ex B&W and current Merlin owner) |
It will be interesting to see reviews with performance measurements. I've read the white paper and yes there is some (compelling) evidence to suggest better compatibility with SACD , DVD-A etc.. due to the higher break up frequency but the white paper did resort to subjectivisms to conclude a points decision over the existing Al tweeter. A friend of mine ordered a pair of 800S 2 months ago and takes delivery tomorrow. At the time he ordered them he as unaware of the pending new model releases so he will no doubt feel a little flattened with this news, and even more so if the new tweeters prove themselves to be superior. I'm planning to upgrade my speakers later this year, so the new 802D and 800D will definitely be on my short list. |
The lineup and the white paper of the new B&W 800 series were announced on the B&W. The followings are the links of theirs.
http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.ranges/label/Range 800 Series
http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.techfeatures/ObjectID/49993A4A-12C3-479C-B5F512A665741805 |
Thanks RYDER. But I think people sometimes make mistakes. Are you Human?
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Armandito, sorry for being petty but it's not "Nuatilus" or "Natalius". Hope you can get the spelling right since you already own the N802 together with the matching center and rears.
Bet you will enjoy your system more than ever now. Happy hunting for your multichannel amp! |
Armandito
The choice is yours,but for those 802's to sound optimal you need plenty,good quality watts and current.At least 200w from the likes of Rowland,Krell,Levinson,Classe etc.Rowland seems to be a popular choice.Dont even think about a HT receiver, will not work.Beware the specs on the receivers,read carefully.
Good Luck
Chris |
Rockethouse
Trickling down technology,Signature tweeter,changing of the crossover....805 Signature without the fancy finish.Price as speculated proved to be correct.805 Signature performance at a lesser price.....glad I didnt buy the Signatures a few months ago.You can imagine what that does to the resale value,which would make any of the old line a good used buy.All this does not make the old line or Signatures lesser speakers.I think the increase in price is too much(all over the world,not only in the States due to a weakend $ )due to the fact that the model count has increased.More models increases production costs.Understand that the new Diamond tweeter is much more expensive,but still find the increase in price on the speakers too much.Beware the D tweeter,touch it and it is gone! Very fragile.
B&W are interesting speakers due to the fact that responses are usually either very positive or very negative.Personally I am in the middle.I think value for money wise,the 700 series may be the best buy,unless you can get the more expensive ranges used.
Chris |
What about Bryston 6bsst or 4Bsst. I am using a 4bsst with my sig 805 and it is very good. |
Armandito,
How much do you want to spend?
Bluebull,
What predictions were these? |
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Brian
Turns out the predictions made a few weeks ago concerning the new 805s are true.
Chris |
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I just got my N802 and I couldn't be any happier. Is there any powerfull multichanel amp that you Guys recomend me for my N802/Htm2/scm-1 hometheater? |
rockethouse, it was all high, high end Esoteric amplification and digital sourcing. I don't remember the particular models because they were way, way out of my league in terms of price range. Well over 20 grand. But terrific they were. |
In 5response to the posters original question - this may actually cause the price of the original Nautilus speakers to rise rather than fall since they look like such a bargain compared to these new prices and the new speakers would have to be pretty fabulous to out peerform them. (At least Ihope this is so since I bought some store demo N803's at deep discount just 6 months ago) |
Washline thanks, makes feel a little better hearing that as I purchased a pair of N800's just before the D series rumours started and when I heard rumblings that the differences were huge I was cursing that I did'nt wait that bit longer as common sense had told me that a new model could'nt be far away. That said I'm very happy with the 800's (still being run in)and have no plans to upgade.
Break-in could have something to do with what you heard but I would surprised if B&W did'nt do this before putting on a show. I'm interested in the electronics that were used on the Sig800's as next year I hope to upgrade my power amplification and I'm always curious about systems with good synergy...especially when they have 800's in them.
Cheers |
Rockethouse, that new N800D sounded very colored and mushy. The diamond tweeter offered little to my ears. The tweeter in the previous line was fine as it was. the new one is supposed to go up to 50-60 khz, but it didn't seem to offer more than the previous line. The speakers were hooked up to the new Classe line, the same as your link above. I went into the next room and listened to the old S800 and they sounded much much better with a line of Esoteric gear that blew my socks off. The S800 is a wonderful speaker. I've been very impressed in general with the B&W S & N lines, but the new diamonds were less than scintillating. Perhaps it was because the new speakers weren't yet broken in or something, but the cabinet synergy and the over sound was weak and unimpressive. |
Whashline can you please elaborate. |
Cheers Rondney01, Here's some more from a launch in China (I believe thats whwere it was) where the attenedees were given a limited edition B&W watch, they also have some pics of the book with dvd that accompanies the new range and a couple of pics under the banner of 802D but they are clearly 800's and appear be the new Sig800D (nice gloss finish) hooked up to Classe Delta range. It's all in Chinese so enjoy the pics.
http://www.avbuzz.com/new_home/w/200412/av/aa/b&w800show/802show2.php#1 |
I heard the new B & W diamond tweeter 800's and 802's at a show here in Seoul two weeks ago, and they were a big, big disappointment. The signature series 800's were much better. |
Here are some pics I found.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20041206/marantz1.htm |
Regarding the prices, I think it's a fair bet that the American deficit, and the concomitant fall in US currency vs. the Euro by 30%, is 90% of the answer. Elect Bush, pay more for European audio. Sad but true.
H. Gordon |
Armandito
They are not discontinuing the Nautilus line.They are revamping the line up.This means that there are even more models in the line up than before.The current models are replaced however with D and s models.Not the same as the current Nautilus range.Old N805 not the same as the N805s-slight differences.Two 803's now the N803D and the N803s.
I do however feel that the price increases on certain models are excessive.For research ??
Friend of mine just bought old N802 speakers for a bargain.Good time for used buyers to watch out for bargains.
Even more so at the beginning of next year.
Good luck
Chris |
There are plenty of people that 'like' to bash B&W, for whatever reason. B&W is not discontinuing the Nautilus line but rather they revamped the whole line, more than just replacing drivers; available mid-January 2005. |
Is there any reason why "THEATERMAX" is bashing B&W ,especially the natalius speaker line, saying that B&W is going to discontued them? I have not heard anything about "discontinued" only replacing their drivers. Can anyone else elaborate more ? There is a ad on audiogon from "theatermax" about this. |
Well, first, just because the diamond tweeter was implemented in one way and resulted in a particular result, it is hard to predict that different tweeter implemented by another design team will give the same outcome. B&W did acknowledge that there had been an earlier diamond tweeter design. Frankly, I see no reason to make presumptions in advance of an audition.
Second, I do not necessarily equate detail with brightness although excessive brightness can unnaturally emphasize details. Personally, I want all the details but 'au natural' and not at the expense of accurate tonal balance.
Kal |
I had a longer post which seems to have disappeared. So my last post was too brief. To explain, I listened to Opera $10,000 speakers with a diamond tweeter, tubed amp. This was a fantastic speaker for a studio monitor. Extremely analytical and made mincemeat out of many of my favorite recordings. At the time I thought "this is great for use in a studio but not when listening to anything less than a perfect recording".
The dealer, of course, was enthusiastic about the speaker saying it was "tactile" meaning you could reach out and touch the singer, vocals were so realistic. Even better than Thiel and without the dispersion / integration problems of a ribbon tweeter so as Levinson's Rosebud of Proac Future speakers. Which was totally true IF the recording was perfect. For those of us who want to listen to their favorite music, not just "audiophile" recordings these speakers were not practical.
So forgive me for jumping the gun, I just saw diamond tweeter and assumed B&W is taking the studio monitor to the next level while leaving music lovers behind. Isn't this what diamond tweeters are famous for? B&W makes great speakers, as good as anyone. I was disappointed because, to my taste, B&W speakers are already bright and detailed enough; so I was really hoping they would choose a more realistic voicing for their speakers. It appears B&W thinks otherwise.
It was interesting to read Paul Bolin's (I think) review of the $8,200 McIntosh amps. He said something about making his head hurt trying to see how the Mac's lack of detail detracted anything from his listening enjoyment compared to Halcro's super detailed amp. So for music listening how much detail is necessary? Studio monitors are a different story, of course. |
"I like the way that several people make presumptions about the sound of the new models without having hear (or even seen) them."
Amen. |
I like the way that several people make presumptions about the sound of the new models without having hear (or even seen) them. FWIW.
Kal |
Diamond tweeter? More etched and hyped up than JM Labs BE tweeter. Whatever happened to neutral tonal balance vs. nervous hyped up speaker? |
WOW. Prices went to the Roof. Are they worth the diference in price?, for example the N802 is now 4k more expensive |
Darryl
History teaches us that they are not that easy to invade.They may slap the Yanks harder and then the prices may go up !
Blue Bull
South Africa |
Cost of B&W 800 Diamond : $20,000
Cost of B&W 801 Diamond : $16,000
Cost of B&W 802 Diamond : $12,000
Cost of B&W 803 Diamond : $8,000
Cost of B&W HTM1 Diamond Center Channel: $8,000
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Hey we all want the new top of the line B&W Nuatilus so I say we redirect our armed forces and invade Britain. Than we can slap the Brits silly and get the price down to 6K. |
Hi all, Here's a link to some pics of the new range
http://www.hificlube.net/common/ver...seccao=Noticias
and this I have copied from another site:
My best attempt at a translation
Portuguese isn't my strong suite, but I spend waaay too much time in Brazil, so here is my best attempt:
International market
BW NAUTILUS SERIES 800 D: THE DIAMONDS ARE ETERNAL
Report in London
Finishing up after arriving from London where I attended at the British Museum, the presentation of the new series BW Nautilus Serialize 800, I didn't want to leave without sharing with the readers the innovation already showing in the pictures of some of the models to open the appetite for the integral Report that will be published soon simultaneously in DN and in HIFICLUBE.
BW Nautilus 801D
At first view nothing has changed but all the new models D have a fabulous diamond tweeter that answers to the 70kHz range and the base driver is now manufactured from a new rigid carbon fiber material.
BW Nautilus 800D
They maintain all of the aspects of the previous models like the following: the "heads" of "Marlan", the elliptic form of the boxes, the absorption tubes, etc. The bases and the supports were redrawn. Inside the "crossovers" were simplified to the possible limit (the high pass filter, for instance, is constructed from a simple condenser in parallel) and the selection of components was very demanding.
BW Nautilus 803D
Entirely new is the model 803D that now has 3 (three!) bass drivers
BW Nautilus 805S
The models S takes advantage all the most recent innovations, less the diamond "tweeter", maintaining the previous aluminum version.
BW Nautilus HTM1D (central)
Absolutely unbelievable is the center HDM1 D that is the type of speaker that "takes no prisoners". Imposing, powerful and dominant. A column with "head" for strong spirits that like sound of integral movies.
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In other words, they are going to try to make them sound (again) like the pre-Nautilus (Matrix) ones! :>)
The Matrix 801 or 802 Series 3, with the right power amps, remain one of the most extraordinary speakers for classical music.
Best regards,
Santiago |
And just finished a story on it for www.stereophile.com. should appear next week.
Kal |
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UK launch was this week.Think on Tuesday. |
No Jeffrey, Nothing yet, No pictures , no information, nothing so far. |
Was a new-product announcement made? There's still (Thurs. nite in the US) nothing on the UK site.
. |
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??? Try B&W, of course. I have the discs/printed material but cannot post them unless I (or someone else) get the time to do a write-up for Stereophile's website. |
Hi Kal,
Thanks for the info. Do you have any links to the annoucements
or better yet any pictures?
Thanks
cmach
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The new ones are 'almost' indistinguishable from the old.
Kal |
Thanks Kal. So they are gona discontinued the Classic shape of the 800 line? |
New line. Diamond tweeter, new crossover, new LF diaphragms, modified cabinet. Many(!) models.
Kal |
