@v ptss, Thats funny!,I suppose after reading all this, The salon 2 camp has nothing to say!,LOL!cheers! |
I have had a pair of Avalon Eidolon Diamonds for the last 6 years and agree with Siddh & Rushton's assessment. The Avalon speakers are very revealing and need top flight electronics upstream. In my system they are wonderfully coherent, have the widest and deepest sound stage of any speaker that I have ever heard. They are nuanced and project with spot on timbre and accuracy IMHO. Their only flaw is they do not play at rock concert level's and do not play as deep as other speakers. But they Capture the Soul and emotion of music which is why I cannot find another speaker to replace mine with!! |
Rushton And Siddh. That's what I've heard. you can have beautiful music n precision with the Eidolon but of course you have to 'set m up right'. Enjoy
Not hearing much from the Salon 2 camp. Why not? |
Yes, the ceramic Avalons can disappear and image really well. But, tonally, they are thin through the mids right on up to the highs. I am involved with many, many concerts listening directly to unmiked horns, drums, piano, strings. Sorry, they don't sound that thin in real life.
This is the type of speaker I call an "audiophile speaker", and they do those audiophile checklist things: image, disappear, depth, detail, image, detail, bass, detail, top end extension, detail........but the sound of real instruments take a bit of a back seat, yielding a lot of detail, which making a speaker a bit thin-sounding enhances.
Float things in space, give lots of detail, that floats audiophiles' boats. Did I mention the detail? |
The material Monitor Audio uses is lighter. And they also use a bigger magnet compared to Avalon. What Monitor Audio and Avalon have in common s that they both have a wide and deep stage. But the individual focus of instruments and voices inside this stage are a lot sharper focussed, more 3d and touchable at Monitor Audio Platinum. Monitor Audio uses pure zulver cable inside of the speakers. Avalon uses simple copper cables. Also in the more expensive speakers. A few years ago I met a person who owned the Avalon Diamond speakers. He modifies everything. He opend the Diamond speakers inside. He said also that it is cheap copper. And the quality of there filters is quite simple. Avalon tries to close there speakers so it is difficult to open them. |
The limitation of the Avalon is the respons of the low freq units. I use Monitor Audio Pl-200 with a PLW-15 sub.Respons in the low freq. are faster. This gives you a lot more layers in the low freq compared to Avalon. We also did a comparison with a 2002 Avalon Eclipse ( last version) with the Pl-200. In every way it was superior. The ribon tweeter gives more air and info compared to the Diamond tweeter. Instruments and voices are so much more papable and focussed at the Pl-200 compared to Avalon. I play 4-5 metres behind my speakers. And about 1 metre beside the speakers as well. But within the stage the individual focus is a lot more toucable and 3d compared to any Avalon I ever heard. Last month I was witht my set at a big audio show in Holland. Many called my set the absolute sound of the show. The owner and boss of a big audio magazine called us tot let know we had the best sound as well. On monday I spoke a lot of audio shopkeepers. Many never heard a 3d image what was this palpable and playing as real in front of them. This is 15 years of hundreds of tests I did in audio. |
Siddh. I respect your comments re fine tuning through ancillary equipment, tweaks and room placement (would add treatment). |
@ Bo1972, what do you have for speakers?, I believe the JBL everest DD 67000 speakers are to me one of the best available!, Do not get these speakers confused with the 66000 speakers!, The 67000 speakers are very new to the market and are a huge up-grade over its predessor!, The JBL DD everest 67000 speakers retail for a whoping $75,000 a pair!, needlees to say, A bargain against much more exspensive speakers that do not perform to these JBL capabilitys!, cheers! |
Following on Siddh's comments above, I've found that the Avalon speakers are exceedingly revealing of everything in the audio chain ahead of them. Yes, how they are positioned in the room is important, but more important is to recognize that they will reveal everything about the audio system in which they are placed. Assuming the power driving them is appropriate, you will clearly hear every change, every difference, in the components earlier in the chain.
A big mistake with Avalon's is to assume you can drop them into a system and will then hear a nice positive sonic improvement by their presence. The system IS improved, but because they are so revealing of what else is in the system, what may previously have been masked will now be laid exposed.
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I have a friend ( client) who has still Avalon speakers. After many different parts in his set he has the best 3d and touchable image I ever heard from a Avalon speaker. I heard a lot of Avalon speakers and demo's. But...my image at home is superior in 3d and also more palpable. This level I never heard from any Avalon speaker in my life. Last month I was with my set at a big audio show, Many shopowners told me that they never heard such a tochable image in there life. |
My experiences with Avalon's...Ascent, Eidelon, Diamonds and Transcendent, are much more in line with Rushton. The set-up has been crucial. Subsequent to owning the Diamonds I heard a pair at an audio shop. Due to, what I believe was inadequate amplification and insufficient break-in, the Diamonds were outperformed by a pair of Arcus sharing the same electronics and space. The demo left me uninvolved, whereas, had I not already owned them, they would not have been up for consideration. I have heard these speakers offer a variety of audio characteristics from detail and pin-point imaging to a muddled, overly soft presentation; an anemic bass to a deep growling bottom end; huge exaggerated imaging to realistic venue depiction.
Experiences, such as these, have emphasized the need for less judgement of any individual audio product, especially at shows. Fine-tuning through ancillary equipment, tweaks and room placement often eke out more of any components potential. |
Sorry, just cannot disagree more with Bo1972's assessment of the image specificity and timbral accuracy of the Avalon Acoustic Eidolon, Eidolon Diamond or Isis speakers.
This ability in the Eidolon, for listening to classical music, is what drew me to these speakers, and keeps me with them. The same with the timbral accuracy in reproducing acoustic classical instruments. My primary listening is classical (both large scale orchestral and small ensemble chamber) and acoustic jazz.
I've lived with the Eidolon for over 10 years, with tube electronics (Atma-Sphere amps and Aesthetix phono), and I have been hard pressed to find another speaker as tonally accurate or as specific in its soundstaging and imaging.
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Yesss, including there own spikes. Every brand has his own properties/talents. This is how I work, I think and work in tools. First I Always want to know the properties/ talents of a tool. ( speaker, amp, source, cable etc) Also at shows and at other distributers it never convinced me. The sound and individual focus I never found good enough. Because within the wide and deep stage the focus is not that sharp. In real it is smaller and superior in how touchable a voice or instrument sounds. I never liked the sound of classical music played on Avalon speakers either. Sound of a violin in real is so much more emotional and warm. As it is a lot more direct and touchable. |
Hi Bo1972,
Do you attribute your assessment fully on the Avalons? |
I sold Avalon for about 6 years. I listend a lot to them. The things I personal do not like is that classical music sound a lot different in real. ( in my opinion) Even with tubes I still do not like the sound. The thing I dislike most is that instruments and voices are less sharp focussed and touchable as in real. It can give a wide and deep stage, but within the stage you never get a touchable 3d image I would want. Instruments are often too big in proportion with Avalon speakers. |
You are the only one who can choose your personal favorite sound. The difference is quite big between these two. Use your own music and listen both to them. At the end you will have your own favorite. It is that easy. |
@ ptss, Thats funny!, you made my day!,My JBLs take on my Krell 700cx! they will not take all the power!, but what they do take is loud enough to think you are at a concert,LOL!, 450 watts continous!, 600 watts a channel, no problem!, 6ohms= 1,050 watts a channel!, is what I have here!so a little past half volume and the speakers can't handle no more!, LOL!,,, cheers! |
I think you are right about their limited power handling,
But the Krell can send out huge instantaneous peak current that many speakers could not digest. |
I listened to the original Edilons back in the mid-90s, those were one of the best speakers I have had the pleasure to hear!, very Dimensional to say the least!, They were in a big Room!, The spectral equipment to me soundes lean with the Bass!, so, I went down stairs and got a Krell fpb 600!, Man-o-man!, that sounded alot better to me!, LOL!, As a matter of fact, I took the mit cables off as well!, replaced by Taralabs, this sounded to me, Awsome!, The funny thing thou is I blew one of the mid-range drivers in the Avalon edilon speakers!, they seem like they cannot take much power!, However, They sounded wonderful!, Happy listening! |
What kind of electronics do you guys use with your Avalons? The reason I ask is that the founder/designer of Ayre used to be with Avalon. Right now I use Ayre myself and like it very much. I can't help but think that they would be an excellent match. I may try a pair of Avalon's sometime in the future. I was just trying to get some ideas. |
I have a pair of Eidolons and haven't been interested in new speakers for years. On the other hand Jeff Rowland Design Group uses the Revels.
I never really heard the Eidolons potential until I got them home and the whole family realized their attributes. While non audio enlightened visitors question their location in the room they usually find their looks very interesting. |
Hello Ptss. What is musically rewarding is subjective and will be different from person to person.
The Revels will play louder without strain and do have a fuller bottom end. If this is important to you, have a very large room, and if the the majority of the music you enjoy would benefit from these attributes you may very well find this speaker to more musically rewarding.
The Eidolon Diamond with the right associated equipment and set up properly can sonically disappear in a room in a way the Salon simply can't. For me at times they can sound scary scary real! They're more coherent, nuanced, and yes, resolving of 'real' instrumental detail. After living with these speakers for as long as I have, I now find most other speakers to sound disjointed.
best,
Tom |
I did not realize this is the same poster.....
Audiolabyrinth, thanks for the confidence....remember nobody's perfect in their opinions though! Hey...I bet that is the first time someone has said that about himself on this forum! That is why they drive me crazy sometimes.
Anyway, an advantage of Revel could be in a small room, or if someone has a very high power solid state amp that might not sound as good at 1/4 watt (Everest) as at many watts (Revel). I figure someone with Everests would find the right amp though, at that price territory.
Sonically, it is hard to figure an advantage to Revels over JBL. Great as the Revels are, Everest is a speaker of over 3x cost by the same organization.
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@ ptss, Why would you consider these speakers at all?, In the other thread I thought we concluded that the JBL DD Everest 67000 was way superior!, Kiddmann, That I believe is an expert,would most likly agree that the Everest 67000 is more musical than both speakers that are under conversation here!, cheers! |
I have respect for some of the Avalon offerings, much more than for most audio companies. But the Eidolon Diamonds compared to the Revel in terms of musicality? What can your contact be talking about?
If by musicality we mean ease of listening, richness of real instruments, tonal ease, then he is giving you real bad advice. The Avalons have more detail, but I should call that "apparent detail"....so much richness is stripped away that this alone would make any speaker more detailed.
If you want a magnifying glass that will amplify every little detail and wart, and if you don't have ears that are sensitive to brightness range highlighting, you may want to consider them. If you find that many high end speakers are too tweeter-prominent, be careful.
The Revels, meanwhile, are pretty much right down the center. Not artifically thick, not thin, nicely detailed but nicely natural too. |
Who cares what someone else says. You would be nuts to buy speakers that expensive without listening to both of them first. Maybe you won't like either one. |
