The Wel Signature xlr took over 21 days. It was the most irritaing burn in period I ever auditioned. Silver takes longer than copper.
I have spoken with AQ about this issue. I said; cables like Well Signature and Wild need to be burned in when you buy them. They will not do it, they said; this is a job for the seller. |
Ditto on at least 350 hours of burn-in for AQ cables,...I've owned quite few (Cheetah, SKY, Raven, Volcano and Mont Blanc) and they really 'come out' after 350 hours....when I tried WEL Signature AES and XLR, the requirement was the same. |
24 hours a day for 3 weeks before you can judge the AQ cables. |
Neither, I would check out Jorma Origo or Jorma Prime (depending on budget). The Cable Co have a returns policy to try out many of their cables also. One word to describe Jorma cables "natural". |
Listen it took me 3 weeks to burn in the Wel Signature and Redwood. And we are talking about 24 hours current through the cables.
These things/periods I hate most in audio.
I was like a rollercoaster in diversity in sound.
So be aware!!!! |
Thanks to all. I finally signed up for the Wildwood and two Wel IC.
Should sound good in few days.. |
Almarg: Great post,...thank you for sharing all your knowledge; it is very much appreciated! |
Thank you Almarg for posting, cheers. |
I would expect the answer to be "no," ZD. Presumably and hopefully the gauge is defined based on the total of the cross-sectional areas of all of the individual rectangular conductive strands. In terms of DC resistance, and hence gauge, that would result in an apples-to-apples comparison with any other conductor configuration having the same total cross-sectional area (assuming the same conductive material is being used).
Best regards,
-- Al
|
I just of something in reference to Tara. Does their rectangular solid core conductors have an impact how gauge is measured? |
Gentlemen, the reason for all of the uncertainty about the gauge of the Tara cable is that the wording at their website is ambiguous, in two respects.
First, the Omega Gold speaker cables are described as having a "separate positive and negative conductor run for each channel." However, every speaker cable in existence has a separate positive and negative conductor run (or runs) for each channel. At least electrically separate, that is. Whether or not the positive and negative conductors are physically joined together makes no difference with respect to gauge.
If by a "separate positive and negative conductor run for each channel" they mean that there are TWO conductor runs for positive for each channel, and another TWO conductor runs for negative for each channel (i.e., a "shotgun" connection), that would mean the aggregate resistance is half of what it would be if there were only one conductor run for positive and one for negative for each channel (everything else being equal), and the aggregate gauge would be 3 sizes lower than in the latter case.
But although I'm not familiar with the specific cable, I suspect that they do not mean that there are two conductors per polarity per channel, and that there is only one conductor (comprised of many individual rectangular strands, of course) per polarity per channel. Correct me if I'm wrong about that, with regard to this specific cable.
In any event, any reputable manufacturer, Tara certainly included, will define the gauge of a speaker cable based on the conductor(s) of ONE polarity, either + or -, and NOT define it as if the conductors for the two polarities are electrically connected in parallel, which of course they are not.
The second ambiguity relates to the reference to the gauge being 6+. That can be interpreted in two ways, as I see it:
1)The conductor(s) for each polarity are in total a little narrower than 6 gauge, and their resistance, correspondingly, is a little higher than a 6 gauge conductor of the same length would be. But the gauge is closer to 6 than to 7.
2)The conductor(s) for each polarity are in total a little thicker than 6 gauge, and their resistance, correspondingly, is a little lower than a 6 gauge conductor of the same length would be. But the gauge is closer to 6 than to 5.
After looking through their website pretty thoroughly, I see no way of being certain as to which of those two interpretations they are trying to convey. However, unless the impedance of the speakers that are being used is exceptionally low (examples being some older Apogee models, or Infinity Kappa 9's perhaps), AND the length of the cables is longer than usual, I doubt that it would make any difference either way.
Regards,
-- Al
|
If you have separate negative and positive runs for speaker cables (typical of Tara The ONE, 0.8 and possibly later models,...one of the features I rather liked when I owned my Tara products), you definitely have to sum the wires by gauge and count in each of the legs of one channel/side of the set and derive the effective gauge.... |
Thankyou everyone, I will get to the bottom of this, if I'm not mistaken, because of separate negative and positive runs, this may be 4awg, I'll get one of the audiogon technology guy's to come here and post. |
Absolutely,...thanks for the correction and the note Cleeds. |
"11-11-15: Zephyr24069
" ... When someone lists something of the form 6+ AWG, it is probably meant to imply the wire is more than 6 gauge (and probably less than 7 gauge depending upon written context).
A wire of 6+ AWG doesn't mean anything at all. That's not a standardized way of expressing wire gauge.
A 7 AWG wire is actually smaller that 6 AWG wire so a wire that is "more" than 6 AWG will certainly also be more than 7 AWG. As the number goes up, the actual gauge (thickness) goes down. |
Audiolabryrinth: "AWG" refers to "American Wire Gauge", a standard unit of measure for a single piece of "wire". When someone lists something of the form 6+ AWG, it is probably meant to imply the wire is more than 6 gauge (and probably less than 7 gauge depending upon written context). For audio cables, or any cables of any kind made up of more than one conductor, you need an "effective gauge" calculator to determine the actual effective gauge of the resulting cable made up of more than one piece/strand of wire of a particular gauge and/or multiple strands of wires each of different gauges.
For example, if you have a cable made up of 10, 24 awg wires, its effective gauge is 14, not 24. Multi-gauge calcs of multiple wire/strands for each gauge (typical of many audio cables) yield more interesting results. As you can imagine, "big bad audio" power cables and speaker cables generally are of lower effective gauges and things like interconnects, etc...are of higher effective gauge.
***Note: I say "generally" as there are clearly many exceptions to this observation for many good reasons....***
Reasonably good effective gauge calcs for both single-gauge and multi-gauge blends can be found in many places on the web,...here is one that yields good results;
http://www.wirebarn.com/Wire-Calculator_ep_42.html
If you wanted to determine the effective gauge of any of your Tara Cables, you'd need to know the specifics of what goes into it.
See Wikipedia for more detail on AWG, what it means to wire, composite cables, etc...and other listings on the web regarding effective gauge for more details... |
Let me throw another cable into the mix.
Siltech Triple Crown new interconnect.
Anyone heard it against Tara Labs Grandmaster or AQ Wel Signature? |
Very nice and friendly answer.
All of you seems to be happy with your toys.
Lucky we are. Glad we can be.
I am aiming for the AQ Wild.
Looking for one.
Then I let you know.
The system, is 825, Criterion. Aeris from Jeff Rowland.Playback design and a pair Revel Ult.2 Salon2 or a sharp pair of Magico .The mini2.
And in the background a pair of Artemis eos1.
I will soon be looking for a sub.
Cables Purist 20th ann. Nordost. And I stil have some Zen Hologram from a while ago.
The main thing is the library. More than 12000 Cds. Same with Lps
It has been an interesting journey. Full of music.Daily.
About 6 times a year i do organize live concerts.
Even better or frustrating when I go back the the system.
Thanks to all. |
Hi zd542, your post is the most comprehensive and honest that I've ever seen to me in my entire audiogon existence, thankyou, if you desire my history story, I can share that concerning taralabs, however, I'm going to be direct,in 2013 I went from taralabs model the one interconnect to the Zero Gold, I was stunned at the lowered noise floor and separation of music within space and the details of treble, mids, bass,etc..., in late mid 2014, I got my hands on the Omega gold speaker cable's, I was using the one speaker cable's, when that happened, I heard the most detail I've ever heard out of anything I ever owned, that's going back to the early 80s!, this was the cable's I dreamed of owning one day because of the price of admission, literally has taken me from 1996 till these last recent couple of years to achieve, then, damn! Taralabs came out with the new two top model's of cable's, may not ever own the Grandmaster cable's, but my new goal is going after the Evolution zero and evolution omega, Evolution power cable as well, being the 1-meter Cobalt with oyaida terminations power cable made a significant difference with lowered noise floor and natural sound stage,yes I've heard the news cable's, made me sick! , no my current system does not qualify the Grandmaster, but mmmm, the Evolution cables are a winner for me, cheers to you zd542. |
"Audiolabyrinth. I do have the same question for you. What is it that you like in this brand more than others. What was the trigger for you. I have to tell you really sound like if you own some of the Cie. Very specific and very enthusiastic listener. I need more input in musical terms.
I've been reading Audiolabyrinth's posts for quite a while, and have though about why he must use Tara cables. I may be wrong, but this is just my best guess. I think we all have expectations as to what type of sound we like. And some things much more important than others. For me, the highs have to be perfect or I can't listen to the system. Other areas, I can compromise a bit, but just not the highs. With others, bass may be the area that has to be perfect. For Bo, I think everyone on AG can answer that 3D is his special area.
For Audiolabyrinth, I'm not exactly sure what his must have area is, but I think Tara cables provide it. Whatever those cables do for his system, its clearly his must have. But remember, I'm just guessing so it could be something else. |
Thanks to all.
Bo. Are still using the redwood? or did you upgrade to the new Wel
How can you describe the step up?
Not so much in term of quantity but more In term of musicality.
Finesse.
Audiolabyrinth. I do have the same question for you. What is it that you like in this brand more than others. What was the trigger for you.
I have to tell you really sound like if you own some of the Cie.
Very specific and very enthusiastic listener. I need more input in musical terms.
And after many years of search I am still not sure ability the philosophy behind the difference in sound.
A violin should sound like a violin. Horn should fell like blown air.
I still have 4 shunyata cobra cx version. Hard to think about switching. |
Hi zephyr24069, I was asking for your help, I do not know what 6 plus awg translates to?, I know it's not just 6 awg, it may be 4awg because of separate negative and positive runs of speaker cable's per speaker, can you help? ,thankyou. |
Audiolabryrinth....I did not make any reference that I recall to 6+awg wire/effective gauge of cables on this thread. |
I own 2 sets of Wel Signature xlr and also 2 brand new Purist Audio LE luminist powercables.
The Wel Signature are impressive. The stage get's a lot higher than all other interconnects I ever tested.
But with the best powercables in the world you can even more influence your set. Most people are not awar of this. I have done thousands of tests with cables in over 17 years of time! |
Hi Lafolia, if you have questions about any model taralabs cable's, pm me, I have lived with or listened to them, that includes the new models! |
Rzado, Thanks for your interest. I am sur the Well is somewhere up.. The price as well. I do work with a large limited budget. These 2 cables would be in the range. And I have read a lot about them. Very few listeners have been in the position to really describe the Well or the new high end from Tara. With these new models arriving on the market come the possibility to get good old cables at the right price on the site.
One day I will get there. Thanks |
The perpetual dispute. Copper. Silver. Tension for sure.
I thanks you for all your point of view. I am still in the dark.
I guess it is hard to explain our choices or priorities.
Unless, as most are saying, you can have both sets in the same room fed by the same source. Which make the comparaison valid but expensive.
Are the top of the line from Mike Morrow in the same league?
They do use a fair amount of silver and cooper and are supported by a large group of listers on the site. Price is surely not the same.
Any opinion based on experience?
Thanks to you all.
I would like to organize a souper with Audiolabyrinth and BO1972. Filmed of course. |
Beside the brand, material what is used for a cable influences the sound, details, blacklevel, stage depth and width, sharpness of individual focus of instruemnts and voices.
Tara Labs only uses copper, maybe the best copper you can get, but it stays copper.
When you compare cables like AQ Wel Signature with other highend cables made of copper, you will hear the differences in resolution and also in sharpness of individual focus of instruments and voices.
With the best silver you can hear more information, that is why I would never want to use full copper in a highend set. I don't say that I would not use copper. Because it also has other benefits.
At the end it is all about endresults, I am only interested in creating the best sound possible. I was in Munic this year at the Highend Show. I became aware of how much further we are in speed and resolution compared to all the others. Same thing about blacklevel and stage depth and width.
Audio becomes superior effective when you are able to use all different properties a brand/tool owns. You also need to understand what each single part you judge sound for does with the sound and your emotion. |
If someone/Tara or Dealer is willing to send me a pair of each (or one at at time) already broken in reasonably without some huge financial outlay to do a very targeted in-home test, I'd love to try them and hear all that you love and respect about them both! I did realize you've heard alot of other brands as many of your responses/threads have the details; I was commenting on the absolute nature of your comments and comparisons.....have a great day! |
Hi zephyr24069, I'm not sure what 6+ awg means?, that is what the Taralabs site says that the Omega gold speaker cable's are, and the audioquest wildwood speaker cable's are 9awg, I'm not sure, but I believe that 6+ means 4awg?, can you help explain this? |
Hi zephyr24069, I'm sorry you didn't realize I have listened to many audioquest cable's over the last 15 year's, however, your correct, I do prefer taralabs, and essentially, as far as other brand's go, there isn't likely but 4 cable's that I'm aware of that can beat the Omega gold,and definitely know the new Evolution omega and Grandmaster speaker cable's are today's best available,I welcome you to audition these two model's and tell us your opinion, happy listening. |
Labyrinth:
"...the Omega gold speaker cable's do sound natural, audioquest does not make a cable to this caliber of performance..."
It's one thing to strongly prefer another brand and model of cables but I feel your attempt at a definitive statement is not based upon enough listening to higher-end AQ cables in all probability (or you simply prefer Tara) and is therefore not correct. In truth, AQ WEL Signature and 1 other (IMHO) upper line of their cables (at least) do perform at that level of performance, you simply prefer the sound of another brand....as do I, for the record, but I don't bludgeon other brands based upon a listening opinion. Again, for the record, I've got a lot of pairs of AQ and Tara in my past ownership history with very good results and even more from an extended demo point of view... |
Hi zd542, as a matter of fact, taralabs does make a interconnect with pure silver shielding, it's the model called, the three, by the way, the Omega gold speaker cable's do sound natural, audioquest does not make a cable to this caliber of performance. |
Audiolabyrinth,
Unless I'm mistaken, Tara doesn't use silver in any of they're cables. Do you know why that is? It seems like most high end cable companies offer something in silver. I've always wondered why Tara doesn't. |
Hi Lafolia,
Is there any reason you are comparing Tara Omega Gold with AQ Wildwood? The AQ WEL Signature would seem to be a more natural comparison. |
I own the Omega gold speaker cable's, pm if you Have questions about them. |
I think you will get the cables new. You need to burn them in for about 3 weeks before you can judge!! |
You order the cables you want to try from one of the dealers that has demo programs, there aren't any good dealers that won't sell cables without a trial money back guarantee period. Have you tried Aluminata's? They may do the same thing you are looking for at less $$$. |
Thanks. Of course not. In normal circonstances it would not be wise.
I am not in the "geographic" position to compare or to do a demo.
I am wondering if any of us had some personal experience to share regarding these two specific cables. |
I wouldn't consider buying cables that expensive without an in home demo first. |
