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Audio Research Reference Phono 3 versus Nagra Classic Phono

I am on the market to upgrade my phono stage. My current one is a ARC PH7, with NOS Siemens 6922. The front end is a SME Model 20/12 with a Graham Phantom III tonearm and a Lyra Atlas Lambda ( Non SL) cart. The preamp is a ARC REF5SE and the power a ARC REF 150. Loudspeakers are Wilson Sophia 3. I run a long (5m/15 ft) transparente reference cable SE between  Phono and preamp. 

In the future, I pretend to run 2 tonearm one with a mono cart and the other with a stereo cart. 

My favourite carts are the Lyra Atlas and Etna (non SL, because with my current phono preamp don’t allow for them), the Air Tight PC1 Coda, the koetsu urushi Blue. 

 

I have 2 options on my radar. Audio research reference phono 5 SE and Nagra classic Phono

 

On one side, the REF5 phono looks like a better choice and has perhaps a synergy on all the system that must be taken into account.   It is based on JFET/ tubes and has a gain of 45db / 67db. It will manage everything from MM to MC, except from the very low MC. Is is compatible with all the carts I love. I believe it might be a little short on the Lyra SL and everyone tells me they run better with a SUT. Using a SUT is ideal with an all tube based phono preamp rather than a JFet/ tube. An external SUT is not, I believe, a good option for the REF5 phono. 
 

The Nagra is based on SUT and tube only.  It only has on the base version one MM and one MC input. The gain is 54/64 db on MC. to use a second MC an additional SUR is needed, either from Nagra or from another brand, more tuned with the cart. 

It has an internal switch to select a true mono cart. II think it is more flexible than the ARC, having a gain more compatible with the 0,5 mV of the atlas. 

 

Has anyone on the forum compared these two phono preamps? What are your thoughts about this?

 

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4 responses Add your response
ghdprentice
6,965 posts
 

I have all Audio Research equipment. ARC REF 6SE preamp now. I have owned the ARC PH8, REF3, and now the Ref3SE phonostage. I have found the ARC equipment to be very synergistic. They are voiced the same so there is no loss from one component being more dominant or attenuated in an area of the audio spectrum and hence losing audio quality through the system. You get greater detail, better sound staging and quieter backgrounds that continue to be musical and natural sounding as you move up and add more ARC components.

It has been too long since I have heard Nagra to comment specifically, but it was not ARC.

lewm
13,027 posts
 

I would guess that if you connect a SUT to the MM inputs of an FET/tube hybrid phono stage you are bypassing the JFET gain stage, and in any case, the gain device makes no difference to the SUT or the cartridge, so long as the input resistance is the standard 47K ohms. So you should have no hesitation in choosing the ARC phono, at least on that score. (I’ve never heard either the ARC or the Nagra.)

mammothguy54's avatar
mammothguy54
949 posts
 

I agree 100% with what Lewm stated.  Additionally, I believe in same brand for system synergy and proper voicing match, particularly for preamp/phono stage/power amp.  Of course, these are my opinions.  But I think that you won't find any argument about same brand system synergy in the audiophile community.  If it were me facing the decision you have outlined, I would go with the ARC phono stage.

 

tomic601's avatar
tomic601
12,911 posts
 

I certainly did go the synergy route w Ref 2se phono >>>> Ref 5 se Line stage. I also can’t fault the Nagra as i have not heard one. All 3 of the MC i am using sound better to me anyway w JFET gain … ( Kuzma CAR-40, Koetsu Urishi - Black , Dynavector 17D3 ) but i did evaluate all three with the lower gain all tube setting and found it a bit lacking - possibly a headroom issue… or just 100% subjective…

Good luck on your search !

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