I swapped out the IEC in my 2.1 rnb today and must say that its another step up for better sound and i can see why Joseph chose to use the Furutech gold plated IEC. One thing i did not figure on was the difference in size between the original and the Furutech FI 09. I was using my old file for about an hour and a half to make the hole bigger to fit. Its worth the effort for better sound.
Between the Hifi tuning fuses and the IEC i think the fuses bring more to the table for better sound. I did not get a lot of listening time in yet so i may be jumping the gun. All in all these two items are highly recommended for users of this fine preamp. |
I'm in the 845 camp.Having said that I'm just pleased that Joseph continues to move forward with new and innovative products.Enjoy the weekend everyone. |
As we've all seen, Joseph has announced the TP2.2 preamplifier and the TD3.1 DAC. After listening to test versions of these products for months, I believe that, once you get a chance to hear them, you will be as delighted with them as I have been.
Joseph has other products in development, including new power cords, interconnects, and amplifiers.
A week ago I received the beta version of the 845 tube power amplifier. The amplifier sounds very good across the spectrum. Transients, nuance, percussion, detail, and a powerful kick drum are present. This amplifier uses various new transformers (power, output, etc), so it is a step up from the capacitor based EL34 power amplifier I previously tested.
The difference from using output transformers rather than coupling capacitors is worth the extra cost, in my opinion. The imaging is more solid and stable, especially at the frequency extremes, with the output transformers. The soundstage is deeper. I notice that my wife (who is not an audiophile but who knows good from bad) is more inclined to sing along with the system, which may indicate that the music is more engaging to her. It is to me.
The 845 amplifier is rated to 25 watts; the EL34 amplifier is rated to 6 watts. The headroom is welcome because it provides the dynamic power needed to reproduce sudden strong instrumental entries - the guitar riff, the drum beat. I've found myself startled by the effective power.
The TP2.0 preamplifier, and its successors, have been so excellent that in some regards they have overshadowed Joseph's other products. Not everyone uses a tube DAC or a phono preamplifier. But everyone will use a power amplifier and, I believe, the amps that I am testing will deliver a musical improvement similar to that of the TP preamplifiers. |
YG my mistake for using this tread for Nuforce discussion. I will send you a PM.
HiFi Tuning Fuses are in my 2.1rnb and i now understand why a designer like Joseph would include them in his new 2.2 pre amp. Right off the get go the difference for the better is with substance, increased resolution transparency and air. Other very noticeable improvements timber of voice and instrument has that live true sound along with a better sounding system with these little wonders.
Guys and Gals do your self a favor if you spend a lot of time in front of your speakers and get in on this very reasonable costing tweak. IMO |
Stltrains, Thanks so much for your time. Got the fuse out but out of luck getting the required size in Singapore. Guess I will have to try outside Singapore.
Is the Furutech FI 09 meant for Nuforce as well. From the internet, I thought this IEC inlet does not come with an integrated fuse holder?
Thanks
Regards
YGLim |
YGLim you dont need to open the case to get to the Nuforce fuse. The IEC incorporates the male plug and fuse. Theres a small tab that a small flat screwdriver will fit to pop the housing up and out the fuse clips into the housing. I had to remove the amp from my system to figure out how to pop the housing out.
Will post my findings with HiFi Tuning fuses and the IEC. |
Stltrains, I looked forward to your experience with Hifi Tuning and Furutech FI 09 connector as I am thinking of swapping the stock fuse with a higher grade fuse eg Hifi Tuning or Isoclean. One question though is Do you need to open the Nuforce casing to replace stock fuse.
I thought I see that there is flap there but seems that it is really an opening to refuse the fuse without removing the casing.
Thanks so much
Regards
YGLim |
Sherod i m sure because the HiFi tuning fuse is much more than a fuse it needs some time to get right. I did some PC moving and swapping this morning and yes it does take time even for well broke in PCs to settle down and sound good.
Looking forward to what the Hifi tuning fuses and Furutech IEC deliver. |
Stltrains,
Believe it or not, these Hifi-tuning fuses get better with time. They have a mild break-in period, so give them a few days to acclimate into your system. |
Ordered from Acoustic Sounds and went with the gold type, also got 2 for my Nuforce amps. Going to change the IEC out to a Furutech FI 09 gold and have one of those coming. |
I was looking at the Cable Companies selection and they list a newer silver model. It costs more almost double Acoustic Sounds at 59.95 anyone compared the gold and silver models. |
The best buy I've found on Hifi-tuning fuses is from Acoustic Sounds: Thanks for the tip. That is the best regular price I have seen also. Too bad I just purchased 6 of them for my new amps. Usually, I wait for a Partsconnexion 20 percent off sale. |
The best buy I've found on Hifi-tuning fuses is from Acoustic Sounds:
http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/41414/HiFi-Tuning-Fuse_-_Large-System_Enhancements
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Thanks, Stltrains. I believe that is the correct value for mine as well. |
Sherod on my 2.1 the fuse on the duel tranie board is a agc 1 amp type. |
Hi rhyno, The ad for the new 2.2 states, • The following are available as an option with the TP 2.2cv and 2.2cvB:
A premium, stepped volume control for a smoother feeling pot, discrete steps, and even less variation between channel output than before. Do you know if this is a true stepped attenuator or a potentiometer with detents and, if a stepped attenuator, by which manufacturer? |
Thanks Mark and Sherod, for the after thoughts about me.
Mark's unit (the one I sold him) had nearly all future (at the time) and current parts, many of these were my wild ideas at the time.
I knew what the preamp needed for a bigger and better sound, which it definately has, Mark can attest to that, he really has a quite special pre.
Nice to see this thread is still alive and hasn't been removed again by the powers-that-be.
Take care guys. |
One more thing. I did replace the power line fuse with a Hifi-tuning fuse and it made a nice improvement. There is one more fuse on the power supply board, but I can't remember what the value is. I probably need to order one to replace that one as well. Can someone tell me what the value is so I don't have to open up my unit just yet? |
Markwattkiss,
I communicated regularly with Pat(Rx8man) while he was getting his TP2.0n upgraded with the Claritycaps and new transformer in the power supply. I'm not sure if Joseph replaced the key resistors in the signal path with the new Vishays in his(your) unit. I think I might give Joseph a call to see if he'll send me the Vishays so that I can put them in myself. I'm sure he'd rather do it himself, though. (o: Rhyno, I look forward to hearing your impressions of the differences between the 2.0 and new 2.2 preamps. Please keep us posted. |
Many of the new pieces in the 2.2 I had installed in my 2.0n thanx to Pat.I'm hopeful that at some point I will have the luxury of being able to compare the two.I can't say enough positive things about the Clarity caps,they definitely provide an uptick in performance. |
i have a 2.1 and a 2.2 in at present; the photo sherod posted is of the 2.1, the 2.2 uses a single larger R-core tranny. otherwise, very similar inside.
areas of difference favor the 2.2, which uses hifi tuning fuses & a furutech IEC, along w/ a tube biasing board & some diff resistor brands in the gain stage, but one area that favors the 2.1 is the dual trannys. hard to say which sum of parts is better, but both units are fantastic.
going back & forth at this point is mute, as i upgraded the caps in my 2.1 to V-caps...this is a significant improvement and worth every penny (its a simple DIY task). i'll have a formal writeup of the 2.2 on PFO soon enough.
rhyno |
Looks to be a winner like 2.1 would love to hear from users when broken in. I can attest to 2.1rnb this preamp is a very important part of my system and delivers music like i expect quiet, full body and image, a super sound stage, and life like timber.
Sherod using Clarity caps was an important move up. I just lost my money source and cant make big buys for now but i will invest in the hifi tuning fuse. |
Well,well,well. It looks like the new TP 2.2 is finally here. Anyone take the plunge yet?
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1275458921&/New-audio-horizons-TP-2.2-Tube
|
I was just looking at a photo of the insides of a TP 2.1 preamp in a current AH ad. The link is to a photo. I'm curious of what changes have been made lately. Based on the photo, it looks like the power supply board has been changed back to the TP 2.0 version. Also, the caps look like something new, not the wax-type with copper foil wrap that were previously in there.
http://pic6.audiogon.com/i/s/f/1247266373.jpg
|
For me now with my upgraded amps and using 2.1 i am most definitely not suffering from lack of music in fact i am in total musical joy with my system. I know from posts above on the power supply upgrade and clarity caps which with shrods help i added to my 2.1 i could not be any happier with Audio Horizons and looking forward to hearing what 2.2 is and will bring. Sometime change is good and then it can be a step backward so i will be checking on the progress of 2.2. |
Sherod,
I see in Victor's 1/26/10 post an answer to part of your concern. There he said he was working on ad copy for several new products and expected the information to be released in 3-6 weeks. It seems likely we will learn the full story around the end of February.
The award to which I referred was recognition from a Positive Feedback writer who was in the process of developing a review of the TP 2.2. Although I've never published a review in a magazine, I've read enough of them to come to understand that the timing of publication can be impacted by many different forces - some in the writer's control; some beyond that control.
The good news is that we are not suffering from a lack of good music. What I feel is only an impatience for even better music. |
I don't follow Postive Feedback much, but is it normal for them to give a product like a preamp an award without a review? It's been three months since that announcement, yet no more discussion about it from PF. Also, is the reason Joseph hasn't announced the introduction of the TP 2.2 on his website because it is still in the fine-tuning stages? I have begun to become a little disillusioned lately with the two gentlemen at AH. Victor has from time to time made posts on this thread of future announcements of things and they never came. If you, like me, have followed this thread, you know what I'm referring to. )o: |
Siltrain,
In my 11/15/09 post I reported that Positive Feedback had announced an award for the new TP 2.2. You will find the link to the article in my post. I think the writer who praised the 2.2 still intends to publish a review. I check the site each month in hope of finding it.
My former power cords were not the Dimension poswer cords, so I cannot say how the new power cords would compare to the Dimensions. |
I'd like to see Joseph design and produce an integrated amp based on his vacuum tube designs. It would be glorious! |
Thanks Cedar so what was talked about months ago with 2.1s upgrade is now 2.2 and thats different than what was done with the power supply and other parts of 2.1 then is that right. I use Dimension power cords Cedar can you compare with Josephs new design. just checked the web site and theres nothing new there. will keep an eye on this thread. |
Joseph did not discuss with me an upgrade program to the 2.2 It didn't come up in our conversation. He follows a produce development process that is, I'm sure, clear to him. But I can't tell when Joseph is finished with the process.
I have upgraded my preamplifier and DAC as upgrades have been released. But I wait until Joseph suggests that an upgrade may be appropriate for my system. Such a suggestion from Joseph indicates to me that he is done with his development work.
I sense he must be close to it now. Victor would be a better information source, perhaps. |
Did Joseph mention if he'll have an upgrade program for current owners for the new TP 2.2? I'm curious what changes have been made to the new 2.2 preamp. Are you getting yours upgraded? |
I have a brief report for you regarding development of the Audio Horizons power cord and the preamplifier.
In my 1/21 post I described the results of power cord testing that involved two different connector types (Wattgate and Furutech) and two different lengths of power cord (1m and 2m). Based on those comparisons, I preferred the Furutech connector and the 2m cable length.
Later Joseph returned with another 1m version of the power cord. I gathered he believed that cable capacitance had adversely affected the 1m performance in the first test. For this second test he had adjusted the 1m cable capacitance. The result was a performance that I could not distinguish from the 2m cable of the first test. Subsequently, I purchased three 1m power cords (with Furutech connectors) to power my DAC, preamp, and power amp). The most pronounced effect in my system has been to sharpen the focus of individual instruments (their discrete location) on the sound stage.
Joseph returned with a modified preamplifier, too. I believe I listened to what will be produced as the TP 2.2. I did not get to listen to the preamplifier for very long. I believe that Joseph came to listen for some particular effect in my system.
Although I cannot yet articulate the effect I heard, I can tell you what my reaction to it was. I lowered the volume setting of my system. I did so without thinking about it - it just seemed at the moment to be the right thing to do. I could hear a musically satisfying performance with all attributes (detail, large soundstage, etc) at a lower volume level.
After a brief listening session, Joseph asked for my reaction. I told him what I have just told you. He was not surprised, he said, because he had done the same thing with his own system.
My interpretation is that the change in the preamplifier allowed my system to work more effectively. Some masking noise or signal imbalance had been eliminated and, consequently, the system delivered a satisfying result with less effort. |
Victor
Glad to hear you are still on the AH team because it is such a pleasure to communicate with you
Joe |
In response to the question put by Gamecock and Sherod, let me assure everyone that I am well and still working with Joseph. I have been distracted with some other matters, but am now working on the literature describing Joseph's new 2010 products--a new preamp, a new DAC, a new phono stage, new cables, and soon, one or more SET amps. Ads with more detail should be breaking within 3-6 weeks.
Thanks for your continuing interest in Audio Horizons. Joseph and I both appreciate it.
Victor |
Pursuant to Cedars comments I find that I am devoting more time and interest in PC's and interconnects.I had occasion to meet Steve Huang,a cable maker,what else would you call him,artisan cable maker? sensei?Anyway to my point.I spent several hours listening to a mano to mano tutorial on energy transfer and application in audio systems.I should add that Steve is a Metallurgist and a Chemical Engineer.From Cedars comments re Joseph's interest in cabling I sense both are on the same wavelength.For those who are interested,and I have no affiliation with Steve's products,his website is www.audiosensibility.com.I have acquired both a premium PC and balanced interconnects with more than favourable results.Now if I could just find a way to get Joseph and Steve together. |
Great info on what Victor is working on. By the way, if anyone is interested in The Transparency power cord with Oyaide connectors, I have one available.
|
I received an e-mail from Victor recently and his wife just had knee replacement, so he's been busy caring for her. He didn't mention his current association with Joseph, but Victor had told me a few years ago that he would retire and write books once Joseph felt comfortable on his own. Victor was just temporarily in the loop to help Joseph with advertising, promotions and communications. Victor has been following these threads so maybe he will post soon and fill everyone in on his current status. He also told me that he had problems with his e-mails and didn't receive some of them in case anyone has written him lately. He said it has been fixed so he should be able to receive e-mails now. Victor, if you are still following this thread, I hope your wife has a fast recovery and gets well soon. (o: |
Is Victor no longer associated with Audio Horizons? I haven't seen him post in a good while. |
Thanks Cedar for your update, i have a Transparency PC now on my 2.1. Sounds like Joseph is doing what he can to make a good item even better by refining it. I like what i m hearing using his Dimension ics with my gear good sound and well built. |
As Sherod suggested in December, here is the latest information I have regarding Audio Horizon product development.
Joseph brought three new products to me to audition. I had seen one of them, an EL34 SET amplifier in an earlier version. The others were a single ended (unbalanced; RCA type connectors) interconnect, and a power cord.
Here is what I observed:
Power amplifier: Previously I had auditioned two versions of an EL34 SET. I identified them as a small chassis version and a large chassis version. There were many differences between them. The large chassis version was superior to the small chassis version. Joseph brought an improved small chassis version for this audition. Joseph told me that the amplifier has some different components. For example, there is a new coupling capacitor (not Clarity) and a new choke. Previously, I very much liked the large chassis version of the EL34 - if he ever gets around to selling one, I want to buy it. In the case of this small chassis version now, I think he has closed the gap between the two versions by about half. The soundstage of the small chassis version is a bit smaller and less deep than the large chassis version. Since I did not have both versions to compare, I'm vaguer about other distinctions between them.
We compared two versions of a power cord with Wattgate connectors. The only difference was the length of the power cord (1meter v. 2 meters). Joseph's interconnects and power cords are grouped into classes. The highest class is called Dimension. This power cord is in the Dimension class. The 2 meter version audibly improved the amplifier performance, to my ear particularly in the the resolution and openness of the highest frequencies.
Here is the surprise (to me). The 1 meter version caused the amplifier output to be less resolved and open than the 2 meter version. The difference was fairly pronounced.
We auditioned another 2 meter power cord. This version had Furutech connectors (the first 2 meter power cord had Wattgate connectors). The Furutech connectors improved the sound even more. The Furutech connectors appeared to have a copper plating on the metal tines.
I gathered that the unbalanced interconnect is intended to be an improved version of the current Dimension unbalanced interconnect. I had only unbalanced Transparency (a lower class of Audio Horizons interconnect) cables with which to compare it. There was really no comparison. The new interconnect was much better in every attribute I associate with an interconnect. Since I use balanced interconnects in my system, I probably won't take advantage of this improvement.
It appears to me that Joseph is not a person to be moved by immediate commercial considerations. I have hoped that he would bring an amplifier product to market soon. Yet, he continues to improve and refine his work. He told me that he is dissatisfied with his 845 SET prototype (see my earlier post) but that the EL34 is getting close to his objective. I don't know what motivated him to start on power cords and interconnects, but I did ask him to accept an order for three 2 meter Dimension powercords with Furutech connectors in the event that he finished development of them.
That is the latest news that I have to share. |
Cedar,
Ever give any thoughts to an exciting career with Audio Horizons as their pitch man.Happy New year guys. |
Sherod,
In my 12/21 post, you learned most of what I have heard about the future products. Your post reminded me that I forgot to mention the TP 2.2 preamplifier. I looked at the Positive-Feedback site but they have not yet published a review of the new preamp, which was recognized with a Writer's Choice Award recently.
I spoke with Joseph after the 12/21 post. Again, he expressed pleasure and excitement about his latest interconnect, power cord, and phono preamplifier products - none of which has been announced officially, as far as I can tell.
I made an internet search under "audio horizons" in order to learn more. What I learned is that someone else has established an "Audio Horizons Inc." web site. That is NOT Joseph.
Regarding marketing savvy, what I see is that Joseph invests himself in designing and producing excellent audio products. It's clear that is where Joseph's strength lies. The product marketing communication comes in brief bursts. For example, he upgraded his website substantially about a year ago. But it is rather static.
Enthusiastic Audio Horizon customers have been the most constant source of product communication. I hope that Joseph gives us some new products soon, so that we can enjoy them and talk about them. |
Cedar,
Since you live in the same city as Joseph, and not too far, maybe you can update us on Joseph's new endeavors. I'm assuming that Victor has moved on to other ventures since he doesn't post here anymore. I e-mailed him last week to see how he's doing and no response yet. Usually he's quick to answer my e-mails. Joseph is a great designer as well as modifier/upgrader of various types of components, but does he have the marketing savvy to properly give his products exposure? I'm still waiting for the new review of his TP 3.0(?) preamp. Apparently it uses the Claritycap MR caps in the outputs along with other upgrades. It would be nice if Joseph mentioned these upgrades in his web site. |
I wish Joseph would shed more light on his product development work. I understand that he has developed a new "top of the line" power cord and interconnect, but hasn't promoted it yet. I understand, also, that he is preparing to introduce improvements to his phono preamp.
Of course, I'm waiting for his SET power amp introduction. As I understand the coming power amps, there are EL34 and 845 based products. I have heard two versions of the EL34 SET and one version of the 845 amp. The samples to which I listened have been returned, so I hope that he will prepare final versions of whatever the products will be, and begin to accept orders. |
Hey Mark! I'm glad to see that you found a new cord to help make your system sing. It's been quiet on this thread lately. I hope you all have a very happy and safe holiday season. |
On a recent trip to Toronto I purchased a PC from a new player in cabling.The website is www.audiosensibility.com Steven Huang,the owner and master cable builder(what else would you call him)provided me with a tutorial on the science of enery transfer.I purchased his premium PC $385,cooked for a week.Results,more transparency and better bass articulation.
For the price it was an absolute steal.I've ordered a pair of his balanced testiment cables,$300.Will share my impressions thereafter.Happy Holidays everyone. |
No.
Joseph has been very value conscious with his products. I expect him to continue to be with a power amplifier, too. I'm sure to get what I pay for and more. But for this much value, I would expect to pay a good bit. |
Informative mini review,any idea on suggested pricing. |
Here are my comments about the 845 SET amplifier.
My system includes the following components:
SONOS digital music source with Audio Horizons power supply upgrade
Audio Horizons TD 3.0, upgraded by Joseph in various ways including a chip set that upsamples to 192kHz
Audio Horizons TP 2.0, upgraded by Joseph in various ways.
Audio Horizons cables: digital single ended SONOS to DAC; balanced DAC to preamp
I used single ended cables to the amplifier prototype because it was not wired for balanced inputs yet.
Coincident Super Eclipse Mk II loudspeakers (28Hz- 35kHz; high impedance; 92 dB)
The power tubes were 845s; the driver tubes (initially) were 6L6s.
After letting the equipment warm up, we began by playing the reference quality recordings which serve me as a baseline for comparing component performance. Immediately a difference appeared. From the first deep bass notes, resonances came from a nearby window frame. I resealed the window and adjusted a curtain. The low frequency energy was powerful but in balance with the mids and highs. I had not played an amplifier that got such a deep, full response out of my speakers before - not even solid state amplifiers. This amplifier has 4 ohm and 8 ohm output taps. We used the 8 ohm tap.
For about 30 minutes we listened to various recordings, trying to cover the gamut of music types and ensembles. The only boundary of the soundstage was the room itself. The depth was very good. I was struck by how well positioned instruments and voices were. Recordings which, with other amplifiers had tended to be too forward or too recessed, were not so with this one. This sound staging was excellent
The music was big, powerful when appropriate, tonally balanced, but to my ear had an unwanted tightness in the frequencies of the female voice. We paused to discuss that issue. Joseph heard it, too. Joseph suggested that we substitute EL34s for the 6L6s as driver tubes.
The improvement was immediate and exactly what was wanted. The voice opened up completely. Imagine Renee Fleming in your listening room singing "Chi il bel sogno di Doretta" from La Rondine (Fleming, The Beautiful Voice). That is what I seemed to hear. It was wonderful!
I cannot speak about rap music because I have none, but the orchestral, instrumental, classical, jazz, country, American standard, blues, rock, etc. sounded great through the amplifier.
Which amplifier do I prefer - the EL34 low power SET or this more powerful 845 SET? I'm not sure yet. Like Joseph's other products, both amps are very responsive to tube selection. Maybe the question will hinge on how loudly I want to play my music. To me 90dB is loud. Both amplifiers played that loud in my system - the 845 could have played much louder in my system. For people with less efficient speakers than mine, the 845 would make good sense.
These amplifiers do credit to Joseph. I think they are excellent products and I certainly will buy one or the other of them when they come to market. |
