Anyone famaliar with the manufacturer,and in particular this pre amp.The credentials and testimonials seem impressive.The advertised 10 day audition is appealing.
Sherod, in general I don't. But I had an open question in my last post about the RMAF and was following to see whether anyone had commented. So far, a couple have sent me private emails, which I appreciate.
The post that Grannyring cited above itemizing the 2.0 to 2.1 upgrade is obsolete and no longer describes all the changes. Additional changes have been made to the 2.1 to improve it and those changes were included in Grannyring's upgrade, which is why the difference between the 2.0 and 2.1 has grown greater than when I first commented.
I will have a full report on all those changes and more at the end of the month.
Grannyring, thanks for the info. I do rememember now reading about what Joseph did to Cedar's 2.0 upgrade. I still am curious what announcement Victor is going to make about this upgrade at the end of the month. I also echo the above comments about the overall sound of the 2.0 preamp. Stltrains, I guess we can live with your new word gooey. I see images of melting caramel with this word; makes me kind of hungry.
I personally like my original style (others may or may not agree) because of the additional room inside to work with)
Having remote does not interest me either, I'm much more concerned with sonics and having Joseph hot-rod my TP 2.0 to even higher levels than imagined (more $$ of course)
Grannyrings *3rd paragraph* of his initial impressions echoes mine to a proverbial T.
Increasing the volume "without strain or hardness" is a VERY BIG issue with me. (I think it has to do with the size and build quality of the power supply, besides noise issues)
Having the music pour out in a huge, liquid, stable, unstrained and totally relaxed manner is paramount in my preferences (the highs, mids, bass etc, etc, should already be a given when attaining this status)
I've had many top preamps (owned, on-loan, borrow) pass through my shelf in the years besides my highly modded SA-5000A and none of them could pass this test (yet)
Of course, AC treatment and other components should be chosen carefully.
A buddy of mine has a Walker-Steelhead combo that literally kicks major butt and passes the test quite handily on many ocassions (due to recording variances) so I feel I have a pretty good reference of what I like (it's NOT the sound adjective descriptives like I said above) it is the *way-of-the-entire-presentation* the so-called magic of the soundstage.
I think Joseph's preamp is his forte' and has even greater potential than imagined.
Sherod, Here is a post from Victor on the upgrade and what is included. Take a look as this helps.
Recently, Joseph took a TP 2.1nB to Cedar, who in the past has acted as a beta tester for us, to compare to his TP 2.0nB. In addition to a number of small changes made to the 2.1, at the last minute in the 2.1n we decided to replace the Hovland caps used to a larger, more expensive proprietary brand. This decision occurred after I had written my post announcing the impending introduction of the TP 2.1. The new capacitors are so sensitive to interference that each capacitor must be individually wrapped and shielded with thick copper foil.
Cedar was so impressed by the sonic improvement of the TP 2.1nB that he asked Joseph to upgrade his TP 2.0nB and his TD 3.0n.
When Audio Horizons was founded, we had a couple of clear marketing goals: 1) to provide a clear upgrade path for owners so that when they could afford enhancements, they could upgrade the performance of their Audio Horizons components (and thus be certain they were improving the performance of their system) instead of replacing them, and 2) to shun a marketing philosophy based on change and obsolescence.
As part of this second goal, we have decided to put together an upgrade option which would permit TP 2.0n and TP 2.0nB owners to upgrade their 2.0n and 2.0nBÂ’s to 2.1n and 2.1nB. The upgrade will not yield all the benefits of the newer model because some of the gains from improved layout can not be translated, but most of the gains will be incorporated--all those that can be included will be. There are six areas that will be addressed:
1. We will add four capacitors to reduce input switching noise.
2. We will remove the old multipath wiring harness from the RCA jacks to the volume pot and to the main preamplifier PC board and replace it with a new upgraded wire harness, which now comes wrapped in an extra isolating layer of Teflon for better noise suppression.
3. As a result of this harness improvement and isolation and by virtue of shielding the new proprietary caps, we find that the line filter is no longer necessary to filter out high frequency noise; in fact it actually introduces extraneous noise. We will remove the line filter and bypass it. This line filter was never a part of the “n” upgrade: it was always part of the original design and exists in the TP 2.0 as well. It will be returned to you.
4. We will remove the Hovland caps, which also will be returned to you, and replace them with the larger, more expensive shielded capacitors we now use in the TP 2.1n version. Our cost for these capacitors before shielding is just under $80. We think they are worth the extra cost and believe you will agree after listening to them.
5. We will diagnose and address any problems some of you have reported with ground loop issues or tube microphonics.
6. Finally Joseph will inspect the preamplifier to be certain it is operating properly.
Because of size and layout changes, it will be impossible to upgrade the chassis and faceplate.
The cost of this upgrade will be $300. Please understand, these upgrades are not a big profit center for Joseph. We are offering them so that those who want the latest Audio Horizons refinements can order them. The caps are not always easy to get so we will need you to schedule your 2.0n to 2.1n conversion closely.
I have asked Cedar to post his impressions of the sonic benefits of the upgrade. His impressions mirror our own but we thought you would like to hear them from a disinterested owner who has now lived with the upgrade for
Alright guys gooey is that tubie sound that only a tubed piece of gear can deliver. just my opinion thought i would add a juicy type of word to the already loaded audiophile dictionary. Sherod the ear 834p is my backup phono amp. the marsh p2000t is my preamp backup. i really hate it when my system is down because of upgrades or problems. so i have a few spares. the wife and me on most nights have some sort of sports on with rock and roll playing for our musical enjoyment. Sherod you are being to kind with the photo. we love music, but going to the beach ranks right up there to. and thanks for the kind words on our system it has been a long road getting a system going again after the total loss of all due to katrina, or should i say the federally failed levee system and dumb ditch canal. what a joke. pardon me if i got off of the audio discussion.
Yes, Stltrains. I also want to know what "gooey" means. I just checked your system. Man, you have a nice system, and do I see correctly that you have five preamps? Do you collect preamps and alternate occasionally for a different sound and perspective? Very interesting. By the way, great photo of you and the Mrs. enjoying the beach.
SLtrains - Thanks for posting your impressions. I am not sure what a gooey mid-range is, can you elaborate?
Tvad - Thanks for posting a good-eared and respectful different point of view. I have been intrigued by those products and now may make an effort to hear them sometime. My AH seems so much less flat than the solid state it replaced, but my experience with different tube units is very limited.
I just checked the website and didn't see anything about the upgrade from 2.0 to 2.1. Lots of info on the upgrades for the 2.1 itself as well as various upgrades to other preamp brands as well though. Maybe that is why Victor commented that he'll be making an announcement at the end of the month about this particular upgrade. I wonder why he's going to wait until the end of the month. Hmmmmm...
Thanks Bill, you got me very interested. My 2.0nB was made right before the switch to 2.1 and therefore Joseph put in some of what the newer unit has. I will have to check out the difference. I am very happy for you that you achieved such improvement - that is always satisfying Joe
Grannyring, Did Joseph give you a parts,etc. breakdown of what all he did in your 2.0 upgrade. I have sent my preamp to Joseph to have mine done and was curious if Joseph gave you an itemization of what he did.
System synergy is so important as well as personal preferences in sound. Not just gear synergy, but also room. I had the Supratek Cortese and Syrah as well as a CJ lS16 V2 in a system of mine about 2 years ago. Had all three great preamps for over a month to play with in my sound room. The CJ was the best of the three in that room and in my system back then.
I ended up owning the CJ and felt it was the best I heard until it went up against the AH a year ago. The AH was clearly better then the CJ which I liked better than the Cortese as I mentioned above.
I compared the AH to the CJ in a new room and with a different amp and cabling as an FYI.
I find the AH very 3D in my current room. My room is 19 feet wide by some 29 feet long. My speakers are a good 6.5 feet from the back wall.
I think the room, room size, gear, wire, room treatment, gear and wire compatability etc all come together making it very difficult to say on piece of gear is ALWAYS better then another when both pieces are world class.
The Cortese is a very fine preamp. I do remember both the Syrah and Cortese having a house sound if you will. They were not as pure and neutral as the AH and that in itself will bring different conclusions based on preferences. Both Supratek units were so smooth that over time the smoothness was evident on every disc I owned. I liked the sound, but the point is I knew it was the preamp's sound in my system. Both Supratek units are more "tube" sounding then the AH preamp in the best way. More fullness or roundness to the sound compared to the AH.
I suspect tube rolling could even change things more with these fine preamps.
I know Tvad, myself and others are having fun both listening to music and playing with gear!
Here is my impression of 2.1 after more than 120 hrs. superlative bass with slam and real control. The mid range is smooth, rich and gooey. Upper end sounds like percussion and upper octaves of electric guitars have individual and unique sound with air and transparency. i am so excited with this 2.1, that i was able to get some early 60s seimens cca tubes which are on there way. i just could not resist and had to hear that additional air and transparency that is written about on this thread. its a nice rainy day and perfect for music so its time for some rock and roll.
Thank you, Bill, for taking the time to give us your impressions of the upgraded preamp. I feel your enthusiasm and it is contagious. I guess I better get on the bandwagon. Enjoy the music.
Here are my initial impresssions of my newly upgraded TP 2.0 preamp. First, I would like to treat these comments as if comparing two different preamps. I really feel the upgraded version is far better. For me, the improvement was not subtle but rather dramatic. I know Victor has stated the upgrade offered slight improvements, however, I feel a little differently.
In a nutshell, the upgraded version brings you much closer to the music. The sound stage is spread out wider with far better deliniation of instruments across the stage. Even on the most complex of music passages, each instrument and space around the instrument is easily discerned. The highs have more sparkle, crashing cymbols sound more live and deliver greater impact. Vocals are rendered smoother. I am now able to understand words and phrases previously unrecognizable. I am also hearing instruments and sounds on my recordings that I have not heard before.
One area of significant improvment is how well the unit plays when turned up. There is less compression, and my music simply sounds as good at very loud listening levels as it does at softer levels.
Base is far more articulate and has greater slam. The original version would have a tendency to sound a little constipated in the base while the upgraded version does not hold back and is freer with the base notes.
In an A/B shootout comparision, I would easily pick the upgraded version and purchase it over the original. I am shocked at the overall improvement and did not expect such a wide gap between the new and old.
This is after only 30 hours of burn-in. The upgrade costs only $300 and is the best $300 I have ever spent on my system.
The upgrade is a no-brainer in my small mind. I am closer to the music hearing instruments - not sounds. The articulation of the details in each instrument are so much more obvious.
Yes, I am sending my DAC back for the same upgrade once a get another $400 - 2 more caps then the pre.
If I sound excited, it is because I am!! Perhaps others did not find the improvement as dramatic as me or perhaps they did and write with a little less exuberance. It may be my room and system are mated well for this upgrade, but I love it!!
Make no mistake, in my system, in my room and with my tastes, this upgrade is big leap forward.
Perhaps this one comment sums up the differnce the best. The audience clapping on several of my live music discs used to sound homogeneous and smeared. Well the upgraded preamp delivers the clapping far differently. I can hear 1000 hands individually clapping. I noticed this change immediately as I like live CD's.
My system for those who have not read it before;
AH upgraded and fully loaded pre AH 3.0 dac - soon to be upgraded Belles 350 Reference amp Proceed PMDT transport Dalis Grand speakers
AH transparency cables all around except a Music Metre Fidulus digital cable - love it!
BPT line conditioners - two of them - one for digital and one for the amps
Two direct 20 amp lines to my system Full room treatment with traps,panals etc Star Sound Sistrum audio rack with audio points Star Sound Sistrum speaker platforms with audio points Mapleshade brass heavy hats
Regarding the 2.0 to 2.1 upgrade, I will have an announcement to make about that at the end of October. Right now, I'm asking for your help.
Joseph and I will be attending the RMAF show in Denver this coming weekend. There are many reasons for going, but one of them is to explore forming a show partnership with a small, quality speaker manufacturer and perhaps a quality amplifier manufacturer. We are too small to afford to participate on our own, but perhaps next year we can afford to partner with other manufacturers. If you have any manufacturers you know or whose products you own that you think might be candidates, please let us know.
Another reason for going is to introduce ourselves to reviewers. In the next couple of months, reviews of the TP 2.1RnB/TP8.0iMCpn integrated preamplifier will be appearing in Stereomojo and a review of the TP 8.0sMCpn will be appearing in 10Audio. We hope that a couple of additional laudatory reviews on top of the Dagogo and these two might help us break out.
So if you have anyone you think we should search out at the Show, please let us know.
Hey, Bill( Grannyring). How's that updated TP 2.0 sounding to you? Are you ready yet to give us a brief comparison of the differences? I'm a pretty anxious TP 2.0 owner ready to make the move myself.
Got my upgraded 2.0 back from Joseph and have been listening for 3 hours. I will share my initial impressions after a couple more hours. Let's just say I can't wait to listen more!
I just shipped Joseph my preamp to do a little servicing and tweaking for me. I hope it gets to him by the 10th as he is going to be at the RMAF show through the 14th. I'm still not sure if he is going to demonstrate any of his products or if he is just going to see what is there. Anybody else know what Joseph will be doing at the RMAF?
Rx8man, I was shocked to see that you had sold your beloved VAC 220 monoblocs. I hope everything is all right for you. Did you ever get a chance to visit Robert to evaluate his Sason speakers? What's going on in your system?
Sherod, Thanx for the information on the power cords.Even with the Canadian dollar on par that's way too rich for me.Having said that I will be taking delivery of a REF 3 next week for comparison purposes.I believe contrasting statements like that are called oxymorons,he said laughingly.Will post my impressions at some point thereafter.
Good news Stltrains. I'm happy to hear that you are enjoying your new preamp. I had a gut feeling that it would mate well with your amp. Keep us posted on the further developments.
Gammajo i am auditioning a 2.1 and i will say this about digital to vinyl. i am like you on the ratio. i have played cds during my time with 2.1 and i am very pleased with digital play back through 2.1. it still does not rank with vinyl in terms of transparency and resolution, but all in all digital played through 2.1 has great musical playback and easy listening. IMHO i have discovered by trying myrtle wood, aurios, brass footers, that brass footers improves imaging, and adds more transparency and air than the others. IMHO after a great night of staying up way late rocking and rolling that this 2.1 is coming along very well. upper air and a smooth transparent sound is getting more and more apparent. bass with super slam, and magical mids, this tubed preamp mates very well with my amps i listen to classic rock most and had the volume turned up and had a real pleasing night of music.
I am curious. For AH preamp owners I wonder how many listen primarily to digital sources (CD) and how many mostly enjoy thier LP collection? I have an decent LP collection but I listen primarily to digital, more precisely my guess is 95%CD and 5% LP. That may change soon as I gear up the analogue side.
Fusion Audio has no relationship to Scott Hall or Electraglide. Yes, they are a similar design in that they use copper and silver foil conductors, but they were designed and voiced by the owner of Fusion Audio. That is where the similarity ends. In my humble opinion, these new Fusion Audio cords are far superior not only in quality, but definitely in sound. I am going to sell my 5 ft. older Epiphany X cord soon if you are interested. Contact Kirk at Fusion Audio for details.
I wish these cords were not so expensive. I bet they are fantastic, but unfortunately the cost is to rich for this audionut.
I did spend the $330 for upgrading to the AH 2.1 however. My unit is due back Wednesday. I will give a full report once it burns in a little. Joseph did the work the day he received my unit so won't be without a preamp very long!
Is there any involvement from MR. Hall of Electraglide in these cords?? The design looks allot like his cords.I know Audiofankj was selling Electraglide cords and know Electraglide used to be in Alpharetta Ga and Audio Surroundings which is selling the new power cords is also in Alpharetta, GA ?
Have you tried these on other components I am looking for a new cord myself,I use two Epiphany X's in my system now.
I just wanted to give my fellow TP 2.0/2.1 owners an update on these new power cords in my system. They have just passed the 250 hour mark in my system, so I feel that they have gone through all their strange ups and downs, shifts, etc. in achieving their final break in. In three words, "Oh my God!" These are the most amazing power cords I have ever experienced. They are the new Fusion Audio cords. I have the bottom line Predator models on my VAC monoblocs and the Impulse model on my preamp. If you do a search of some of my cable posts you'll see that I have been a cable junky for quite a few years, going back to 1977 when I swapped out my Monster Cable 12 guage speaker cables for the new MIT MH 750 Music Hose speaker cables. When I heard the difference in my meager system consisting then of Vandersteen 2B speakers, Musical Concepts modified Hafler DH200 amp, and modified Stew Hegeman preamp, I was floored by the difference that this cable swap made. This was at a time when some reviewers were saying that cables didn't make a difference. If you have a pair of good ears, the answer to those naysayers back then was "Hogwash!" In the past 25-30 years I have experienced a wide variety of cables( interconnects, speaker cables, and within the last 5 years--power cords. In power cords, I have had some of the best in my system from reputable manufacturers, DIY home-made, not-so-reputable, and some in-betweeners. A partial list of names is: VH Audio, Shunyata, Synergistic Research, Electraglide, Acoustic Zen, Elrod, Virtual Dynamics,Dream State, and a few others I can't recall. Some of these cords made a good impression and some didn't work out so well. The reasons were possibly poor synergy, poor design, or who knows. I recently read briefly about this new power cord line from Fusion Audio and was able to get a few of the new production cords that I mentioned for a discount because one of the partners, Kirk, is a long time acquaintance/friend whom I have communicated with for a few years about our systems and recently became a customer when Kirk became a joint dealer for Electraglide. Kirk sent me the cords after I made a security deposit with him with the stipulation that I evaluate them for a few weeks and if they didn't work out in my system I could send them back, paying only the shipping both ways. I thought, "Why not?' I'm game for trying something new. The cords were new with no break in. Normally the manufacturer will pre-break in the cords on a cooker prior to shipping to the customer, but Eric, the actual maker and other partner, had to rush make these up for me to ship off as Kirk had to travel out of town, so I told them to ship asap and I would go through the lengthy period of their break-in( They actually didn't really start sounding wonderful until about the 185 hour mark.) Anyway, to make a long story( review?) short, these power cords are staying in my system. They have lifted my system to celestial heights and I am not exagerating one bit. I had the older version( better than current) of the Electraglide Epiphany X on my TP 2.0n and thought it sounded as good as it could get. The Fusion Audio Impulse is substantially better in all regards to the Epiphany X. Fellow TP 2.0 owners. You haven't lived until you put a Fusion Audio Impulse on your preamp. Take it from a long time power cord nut who has tried 90% of the best stuff out there. The Fusion Audio power cord lines are the culmination of many months of trial and error, fine-tuning through careful listening on premium components in various systems. The standard cords come with the fairly inexpensive Wattgate connectors, reason being that they were the most neutral of anything out there. For those systems that need extra warmth, brightness, etc. for a nominal fee you can choose from a variety of Oyaide, Furutech, and other popular connectors. As for me, I'm happy with the cheap Wattgates because I prefer neutrality and naturalness( read: Alive) in my system. I was going to write a separate review on these power cords, but I can't write worth a damn and it takes too long with my two-fingered typing. It's a miracle that I was able to write this much but I forced myself to because of my extreme enthusiasm for this new power cord line. In conclusion, please believe me that I am writing this information strictly as a satisfied customer. I am not a dealer ( although I wouldn't mind being one) and I'm not a shill. I didn't get these for free( I already said that I got a discount)and I'm not getting any form of payment from Fusion Audio. They didn't ask me to write up anything about their cords. I am writing this from my heart as I am merely a typical audiophile seeking to extract every nuance of beautiful music that I can from my system. This is my love and my hobby.
On initial listening when I first got my TP 2.0n, the highs were rolled off, the mids restricted, and the bass a little loose and light sounding. You'll gradually hear better and better improvements over the next few days. I have had mine for about a year and a half now, so I can't recall when everything clicked in on the sound, but after 72 hours, you should be about 85-90% there, and that is leaving the unit on 24/7. When you do eventually turn it off to conserve on tube life and electricity, the unit will sound nice upon initial turn-on, but will sound its best after roughly 45 minutes once the circuits settle in. YMMV.
Sherod thanks for your reply, your description of what cca does in your system is a must for me. compared to my nuforce p-9 for now the 2.1 is a little short in upper extension but better on the bottom. i am not drawing any conclusions yet just early observations. do you know what if any upgrades are planed for the extras on the remote.
Stltrains, The tubes are a matter of personal taste in what sounds best in your system. I personally prefer the accuracy, neutrality and great upper extension of the Siemens CCa in my system, but you might prefer another brand for its personality in your system. It's a good idea to let the preamp burn-in for a few days before you seriously evaluate it in your system. Also, if you are introducing a new power cord, allow at least 150 hours for it to break in as well. I look forward to hearing your listening impressions.
i received my 2.1 yesterday and a fine looker it is, silver and wood. my audition 2.1 came with rpnb and siemens tubes. joseph also sent a transparency power cord, and ic. the remote must have upgrades in the future as a phase button along with input selection is on my remote. the phase option with be a fine addition. i am using my wire for now, but plan on trying the supplied wire from cp. i am letting the unit play all day for break in and will give it a good listening to in a few days. i take it that cca tubes will bring better sound for 2.1 from reading all of the posts on this thread.
Joshclark, I owned a VTL 5.5 which I compared to the Audio Horizons TP 2.0nB. The VTL came in a distant second place in that contest. The Audio Horizons preamp excelled in soundstage, dynamics, resolution, ... . As someone inclined toward VTL products (through two preamp models, two power amp models), I was surprised at how much better the AH preamp performed.
Btsrg, Please let me know how you like the pinched waists in the preamp. It's the only tube I don't have access to, but then, I could live happily ever after with these Siemens CCa. By the way, I have tried both a Transparent and Premium power cord on my preamp. For the money, they are very good, but in all honesty, there are much better cords, however, for a price. I don't mean to down-play any of Joseph's products because his preamp is the best I've had in my system and his other mods and upgrades are fantastic. His modded version of my Citation 18 tuner is an amazing achievement. This is currently my favorite source of listening in the evenings while I browse these forum threads. Mr. Chow is a genius when it comes to lowering noise level in audio components. I previously had an Electraglide Epiphany X which I thought was just a perfect match for my TP 2.0n; until recently, I came across a new copper/silver blended foil/ribbon power cord that is unbelievable. My TP 2.0n has never sounded better. I can't even imagine it sounding any better. In fact, I'll go so far as to say, I'm done for a long while in my preamp searches. My 5ft. Epiphany X will be up for sale soon. Any fellow TP 2.0 owners want a brother-in-law deal?
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