2. digital
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ARE SUPER EXPENSIVE STREAMERS REALLY WORTH IT

Folks I am confused why some streamers need to be so eye wateringly expensive. I appreciate the internal basics need to be covered such as a high quality, low noise power supply and a decent processor speed etc..  but that is not rocket science.

So my question is could a decent streamer outputting its data stream via I2S to a good quality DAC receiving the I2S stream be a more cost effective way of rivalling let’s say a streamer costing 5k upwards.

I have heard and digested the argument for expensive streamers quality being centred around the management of the data timing via a quality clock circuit but there are very reasonable in relative terms, DAC’s out there that have dual super high quality temp controlled clocks within, at least the equal or arguably even better than the say a 5k streamer with some sporting dual high end DAC chips etc.

So could utilizing a good quality streamer and a separate high-quality DAC connected via I2S indeed offer significant benefits and potentially reduce the need for a very expensive streamer.

I say this with the knowledge that I2S is designed to preserve and separate the Signals so avoiding the timing issues connected with multiplexing. I2S (Inter-IC Sound) separates the music signal from the timing signal, potentially eliminating jitter or at the very least greatly reducing the possibility for the pesky music killing jitter which we all could agree would lead to improving overall sound quality.

Wouldn’t this separation ensure that the timing information is more accurately preserved, even when compared to a high price streamer, leading as clean or cleaner and more precise audio data output. With I2S, the DAC can use its own high-quality clock/s to synchronize the data, which will reduce jitter and improve sound quality.

Could this possibly mean that even if the streamer has a less advanced clock, the DAC’s superior clock can take over, ensuring best  performance.

So bang for buck would it not be advantageous to investing in a high-quality DAC and using a good but not necessarily top-tier streamer to achieve excellent sound quality without the need for an extremely expensive streamer. Surely the DAC’s performance will play a crucial role in the final sound quality.

Play gentle with the pile on please....................

nubiann
cmrbkk
7 posts
 

I’ve been following this thread with interest since I’d ordered a new streamer around the time it was first posted.  I stream music via Tidal Connect and my existing chain consists of a third gen Bluesound Node (which, for the $350 price, cannot be faulted) connected via USB to a Holo Cyan 2 which then connects via XLR’s to my Hegel H390 and then onwards to a set of Boenicke W8SE speakers through Veritas’ Apurta speaker cables (great performers for the money). 

I gave myself a $2K budget for a new streamer and settled on Holland based Magna Hi Fi’s Mano MKIII.5 streamer with its separate matching Farad 3 LPS.  Magna Hi Fi offers several optional upgrades and, after bathing in snake oil, I opted for their offered upgrades on the connecting cable for the two boxes, a fancy pants fuse and LAN isolator from Synergistic Research.  I’m disclosing these choices fully realizing it may elicit flack, but for me, it was in my $2K  budget (just, at $1900USD) and rather than trying to take it with me, I thought I’d have some fun spending the money in the pursuit of audio happiness. I think their base case unit retails somewhere around $1,200 and can be upgraded thereafter if down the road, if curiosity gets the better of you.

At $1,900, I’d consider this at the low end of “expensive” in the world of pure streamers (units without dacs).  The two boxes are matched and diminutive in size but once plugged into my system, and now connected via I2s (because, well I’m curious) I can say without question, it makes a difference. 

I don’t know why or how, but am really quite stunned at the improvement in sound quality.  Everything I stream sounds much cleaner, quieter and more detailed.  Am now a big believer in the benefits of a separate linear power supply. Also, I'd note their Level 2 silver cable works really well in a system like mine, which already has plenty of warmth.  Honestly, I would not have thought a streamer could make such a contribution to my overall sound quality but it's clearly a step forward. 

I’m using the Volumio software (they offer several options) which is proving a solid platform for me. One downside, if you like to stream Tidal Connect natively (as I do) the optimal way to do so requires Volumio’s subscription service.  Note you can stream Tidal via the Volumio software without the subscription, but to do so natively, via the Tidal Connect app, you need to pay the piper.

So the answer to your question, in my opinion based on my experience with the new gear I acquired is a resounding yes.  It not only made a difference, but a pretty significant one.  As always, YMMV.

kennyc
1,573 posts
 

@nubiann 

In high-tech computing, only the data integrity and timing matters.  However, in high-end audio, it’s more than just delivering the data, the data rides on an analog stream that often pick up noise.  Even one’s audio components can introduce noise.  

grossman616
130 posts
 

No. Start with an Ocean Digital  WR 10 and go from there-if need be. Paired to a great DAC , it's an astoundingly good piece of gear for an embarrassingly low cost. I know, we all think good= expensive...........

 

had mine for years, from Amazon, that's right. Don't be a snob......

 

the folks at O.D. are very nice and quick to respond too

wsrrsw's avatar
wsrrsw
1,063 posts
 

@vthokie83 With your budget please check out this all in one. The Grimm Mu2.( it also can be a Roon Server).

Reasonably (?) priced used DAC's like a Weiss or Holo May KTE would be on my list. (Yes, I have a Weiss and it's not going anywhere).  Please consider allocating resources to ethernet filiation, switch and cabling as digital will benefit.

vthokie83
940 posts
 

wsrrsw

Thanks for the recommendation, though i'm leaning on keeping the streamer and DAC as separates.....though not finalized. Will definitely be looking at Weiss and Grimm, but I'm not going to be considering the Holo May KTE. I've compared it in my system against a Denafrips Terminator Plus, and I much preferred the Terminator.

This year I'll be spending 2 or 3 days at Axpona, and I'll be diving in deep with the DAC and streamer vendors; as most of those I'm interested in will be there.....though I didn't see Lampizator in the vendor list. I live in the area, so it's convenient.

I'm also going to spend a bit of time at the Theoretica booth, I want to learn a lot more about Bacch filters and hardware they require. There have been some really interesting reviews and papers released on Bacch recently

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