2. digital
  3. 192710-196145

ARE SUPER EXPENSIVE STREAMERS REALLY WORTH IT

Folks I am confused why some streamers need to be so eye wateringly expensive. I appreciate the internal basics need to be covered such as a high quality, low noise power supply and a decent processor speed etc..  but that is not rocket science.

So my question is could a decent streamer outputting its data stream via I2S to a good quality DAC receiving the I2S stream be a more cost effective way of rivalling let’s say a streamer costing 5k upwards.

I have heard and digested the argument for expensive streamers quality being centred around the management of the data timing via a quality clock circuit but there are very reasonable in relative terms, DAC’s out there that have dual super high quality temp controlled clocks within, at least the equal or arguably even better than the say a 5k streamer with some sporting dual high end DAC chips etc.

So could utilizing a good quality streamer and a separate high-quality DAC connected via I2S indeed offer significant benefits and potentially reduce the need for a very expensive streamer.

I say this with the knowledge that I2S is designed to preserve and separate the Signals so avoiding the timing issues connected with multiplexing. I2S (Inter-IC Sound) separates the music signal from the timing signal, potentially eliminating jitter or at the very least greatly reducing the possibility for the pesky music killing jitter which we all could agree would lead to improving overall sound quality.

Wouldn’t this separation ensure that the timing information is more accurately preserved, even when compared to a high price streamer, leading as clean or cleaner and more precise audio data output. With I2S, the DAC can use its own high-quality clock/s to synchronize the data, which will reduce jitter and improve sound quality.

Could this possibly mean that even if the streamer has a less advanced clock, the DAC’s superior clock can take over, ensuring best  performance.

So bang for buck would it not be advantageous to investing in a high-quality DAC and using a good but not necessarily top-tier streamer to achieve excellent sound quality without the need for an extremely expensive streamer. Surely the DAC’s performance will play a crucial role in the final sound quality.

Play gentle with the pile on please....................

nubiann
devinplombier
504 posts
 

I guess I will just continue to ask dumb questions until I arrive at the right answers

@nubiann 

First, sorry about the above post. It's just that all-caps grate.

Second, your questions are thoughtful and on point imo. They are far less dumb than many of the answers you've been getting, if I may.

Third, since you ask, here is the truth about digital streamers.

- Buy a $15000 streamer if you can't afford a $30000 one. It doesn't really matter which one because at that price level they are guaranteed to enchant (they wouldn't cost that much if they weren't amazing - think about that for a second) and they are all created by geniuses, or should I say magicians - after all, anyone who can turn a botched Linux distro running on a lowly ARM Cortex into Gold has to be a little bit of one.

- Pick a team: USB or I2S (Teams SPDIF and AES are the audio equivalent of the Liechtenstein National Football Team). Acquire enough random knowledge about oven clocks, DDCs and HDMI pinouts to effectively defend your team in forum posts. In-depth knowledge of com and network protocols is entirely superfluous and will fall on deaf ears. Ditto references to the studio / mastering world, though it solved those issues eons ago with Dante, Ravenna, AES67 et al.

- Absolutely invest at least $1000+ in a USB / I2S cable. Digital bits are extremely small and wily. They easily escape lesser cables, causing annoying jitter. High-end digital cables effectively capture jitter and turn it into harmless vapor, resulting in the inky darkness of a 360 degree soundstage from which you can easily pick the exact location of Diana Krall's lips. You read it here first!

 

wtyamamoto
10 posts
 

All SPDIF protocols and i2s utilize the clock of the streamer.  USB (asynchronous, which most DACs these days are) clocks/reclocks the signal internally.

SPDIF MIGHT be better if the streamer has great clock crystals/circuits, and asynchronous USB MIGHT be better if the streamer source has a poor clock.

Most modern DACs can handle a pretty high amount of jitter, and there's debate as to how much is too much.

Most modern DACs also have great USB inputs (most using XMOS chips; however, there is debate about how much "noise" USB circuits introduce to the signal and/or generate internally.

I have PERSONALLY not found a streamer that sounds better than my Raspberry Pi (now 5) running Moode Audio running USB to either my PS Directstream or my Okto DAC8, and that includes running my dedicated mini PC USB through my Matrix SPDIF 2 to the Directstream via i2s.  I THINK it sounds better than my Node 130 that I got because I wanted to try the "famous" Bluesound interface.

But I'm 62, and whereas I used to be able to hear a mosquito across the room, I can now only hear it if it's hovering right next to my head.

rbrannen
28 posts
 

I was running Roon on a Mac mini using USB output to my Wavlet II DAC. I narrowed my dedicated streamer choices down to a HiFi Rose RS130 vs Aurender n200 and for me chose the HiFI Rose because it looks much better esthetically and supports Roon.  Noticeable sound improvement but not major. I’m still happy with my decision and can direct stream from Spotify now.

mclinnguy's avatar
mclinnguy
755 posts
 

No one has really convincingly explained this.

And even after decades of research and millions of dollars spent nobody can explain how turtles can use Earth's magnetic fields to return to the beach they were born, after swimming thousands of miles away from it.

But they do. 

willgolf
941 posts
 

When I furst upgraded my DAC from a Lumin X-1 to Lampi  Pacific with a Synoogy 8tb and Lumin U2 I was terribly disappointed in the Lampi.  I felt the sound of the X-1 was really close to the Pacific.  After researching many Servers/Streamers, I came across Lucas Audio, a small company out of Poland.  I talked to Lucas Domansky numerous times and he created a server for me.  

It was night and day better once I plugged the Lucas Audio server into my system.  Without a doubt, the money I paid for the Lucas Audio server was worth every penny/dollar that I paid.  I have since acquired the Lampi Horizon and the Aries Cerat Kassandra DAC's but I will never replace my Lucas Audio Server.  

They are both extremely important, but in my case, it is 60% Server and 40% DAC.

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