ARE SUPER EXPENSIVE STREAMERS REALLY WORTH IT
Folks I am confused why some streamers need to be so eye wateringly expensive. I appreciate the internal basics need to be covered such as a high quality, low noise power supply and a decent processor speed etc.. but that is not rocket science.
So my question is could a decent streamer outputting its data stream via I2S to a good quality DAC receiving the I2S stream be a more cost effective way of rivalling let’s say a streamer costing 5k upwards.
I have heard and digested the argument for expensive streamers quality being centred around the management of the data timing via a quality clock circuit but there are very reasonable in relative terms, DAC’s out there that have dual super high quality temp controlled clocks within, at least the equal or arguably even better than the say a 5k streamer with some sporting dual high end DAC chips etc.
So could utilizing a good quality streamer and a separate high-quality DAC connected via I2S indeed offer significant benefits and potentially reduce the need for a very expensive streamer.
I say this with the knowledge that I2S is designed to preserve and separate the Signals so avoiding the timing issues connected with multiplexing. I2S (Inter-IC Sound) separates the music signal from the timing signal, potentially eliminating jitter or at the very least greatly reducing the possibility for the pesky music killing jitter which we all could agree would lead to improving overall sound quality.
Wouldn’t this separation ensure that the timing information is more accurately preserved, even when compared to a high price streamer, leading as clean or cleaner and more precise audio data output. With I2S, the DAC can use its own high-quality clock/s to synchronize the data, which will reduce jitter and improve sound quality.
Could this possibly mean that even if the streamer has a less advanced clock, the DAC’s superior clock can take over, ensuring best performance.
So bang for buck would it not be advantageous to investing in a high-quality DAC and using a good but not necessarily top-tier streamer to achieve excellent sound quality without the need for an extremely expensive streamer. Surely the DAC’s performance will play a crucial role in the final sound quality.
Play gentle with the pile on please....................
Good analogy @2psyop Exactly. Nobody goes to the Lexus forums and calls them all "luxury-fools" for spending there money this way, but plenty do this on audio forums. |
Yes, but all of your Q and A above talks about clocking, and implies the clock is the only part that matters, and overlooks the most important part of a streamer: If the power supply(s) are insufficient not much else matters, and the concept that the clock can just "clean everything and make music perfect" is incorrect. From Antipodes: "a clock stage is only as good as the circuit it is used in and the power supply that powers the circuit. And the re-clocking stage needs to receive a low-noise signal with high-bandwidth, before it can re-clock the signal accurately. If the signals before and after the re-clocking stage are polluted by noise below the bit-rate (such as from employing linear power supplies) then the re-clocking will be largely ineffective. Anyone that claims that digital is 'just ones and zeroes' has not applied their knowledge to demanding real-world problems." All the best super-expensive, no compromise streamers have gone to huge lengths to develop their power supplies, which is a large portion of their expense. Grimm, Antipodes, Taiko, Xact S1 have developed these power supplies all in-house, these are not off the shelf parts some Joe can buy off the street and think he can make the same streamer himself. Same goes for the computer boards. Not sure how Aurender goes about their power supply but their website states this: N30SA’s unique hybrid power supply delivers a pure DC current to flawlessly power the digital audio output board, while a separate linear power supply chain feeds clean power to the non-audio adjacent components of the machine. Of course we all understand power supplies in amplifiers matter, but there is a reason why people buy a $7000 Sean Jacobs power supply for their Chord Dave. Quality power makes a huge difference in all components.
Okay, your last paragraph addresses this. But just go and listen to a no compromise streamer and hear it for yourself instead of "believing it" due to responses or trying to rationalize it. Most times in life you get what you pay for.
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Cool! Plenty of choices out there. The two you have are two of the most popular in this forum. In addition to names I gave above, add Innuos, EMM Labs, PS Audio, Melco, Moon, Audiolab, Auralic, Wattson, Cambridge Audio, Cyrus, nobody here ever talks about Naim, rarely Linn- who invented the high end streamer. I guess it all starts with budget. Here is one cool "network player" that is totally upgradeable and customizable- buy the modules you want and don't pay for ones you don't- check out the review:
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Yes, half of us keep saying this and the other half clearly do not. They instead "decide" what will sound best, or what will not sound better. Seems really odd in a "sense-based" hobby that one refuses to use their senses. Imagine someone calling themselves an artist yet refusing to look at the painting. |
@antigrunge2 +1
No surprise a company like Grimm that engineers its own clocks for others and who developed their own power supply tends to have nice sounding streamers.
And as a result it is reported the Grimm machines do not improve substantially with cable and filter changes as much as other streamers can. |
I’m with you. Squeeze/squeezelite provides for a higher level of resolution, less congestion, and better defined bass from my streamer versus Roon. But sometimes that extra richness Roon offers is welcomed. Through the dashboard via the app I can actually view the cpu processors usage and memory usage for both the server and the players while I listen with my K50 . Typically playing Squeeze they are at 0% after the first 20 seconds where it runs up to 20% or so, (buffering I assume) and with Roon I have seen it can take 20-50 seconds at the start of each song and then typically stays at 0%, but I have seen it waver more than Squeeze; maybe some background processes run at will; I don’t use any EQ or convolution or anything- everything that can be turned off or disabled it. memory is at 9% for the player and 4% for server regardless of software. But is Grimm, which has been optimized and voiced for Roon, better in my system compared to my streamer using Squeeze? I don’t know that answer yet. This isn’t my picture but one from Antipodes website, and the copy here is blurred and distorted, but gives you the idea:
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