No there are many much better , they are a open vented speaker with a down firing passive radiator. They will give decent bass
JL audio Fathom much more accurate and have built in Bass Room Correction.
Are REL the most Musical Subs?
Forgive me if I have created a redundant thread. I don’t usually post in the Speakers area.
I have a Paradigm sub in my basement HT that has apparently given up the ghost after about 20 years. I’m not a huge bass listener. We used to use the area for movies but lately a different room of the home has taken that over. I listen to classical music and the system gets used primarily for SACD and Blu Ray. No desire for multiple subs. The front speakers are full range, setup is 5.1
I added a REL sub to my 2 channel system a few years ago, an REL, and have been delighted with the results. It doesn’t boom at me. What it does do is add the low level percussion effects that composers such as Mahler, Shostakovich , and modernist composers add to reinforce bass lines. I never realized, for example, how many gentle tympani and gong effects are in Shostakovich Babi Yar symphony.
The REL integrates all of this naturally without calling attention to itself. The Paradigm in the basement never did this but it was an older design and more budget friendly.
So I am inclined to replace the Paradigm with another REL in the basement but was wondering what the current thinking is with subs. I haven’t paid much attention lately and the stuff that I have pulled discusses multiple subs, Atmos, etc, and doesn’t seem to address my needs.
Placement will be different as well. The current sub is placed between the front speakers, and the gear rack is on the other side of the room. 20 years ago I had the energy to bury the cables next to a baseboard heat along the all, after schlepping the sub over the basement testing placement spots,but with advances in DSP I’m now hoping to place the sub next to the rack
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@jheppe815 Exactly. Which is why the manufacturers continue making second rate subwoofers, they are less expensive and less complicated. My point is that many great systems are better off without subwoofers then employing them in this way which is why subs have such a poor reputation in some circles. You should do it right or not do it at all. Theater is a different subject. One issue you are not quite there on. To get realistic bass at levels that will not hurt your ears you have to apply EQ to boost bass such that from 50 down to 20Hz are boosted 10 dB. This is not due to any woofer defect, it is due to the sensitivity of your ears and cutaneous sensation to low bass. Making subwoofers that are +0, -3 dB from 100 down to 20 Hz is not difficult. Getting them +10 dB 50 down to 20Hz requires digital EQ. Without EQ capability there is one other way to do it, turn the gain up on the subwoofer amplifiers or down on the main speakers while rolling out of the subs 10 Hz earlier, as in sub crossover point 90Hz, main speakers 100Hz. @ditusa I sort of think fast is sillier than musical, but who am I to say:-) https://imgur.com/gallery/building-resonance-free-subwoofers-dOTF3cS |
@mijostyn - I fully agree with your statements on gain structure to get bass outputs at desired levels. An outboard crossover with gain adjustments is a great piece of equipment to help with any type of subwoofer integration. Back to the original question as to if REL (and other modern powered subs) are musical. Back about 33 years ago, I tried to integrate subwoofers into my two-channel system. I had the outboard crossover and separate power amp setup at my disposal. I brought home at least 4 non powered subwoofers (all used gear that could be returned) from various local stereo shops. I tried everything to gain "musical" low end extension and failed miserably at it. All that was available back then was home theater type subs and all were very tubby and muddy. Great for explosions on the Backdraft movie soundtrack but did not add anything audiophile like for music playback. Even the salesmen back then kinda laughed at me as to what I was trying to accomplish. Fast forward to now and I think these powered cabinets with DSP have come a long way in having the potential to add musical bass to two channel systems without the HT boom. That said, I think many of these ~$500 - $1,000 subs have compromises due to R&D budget and material cost constraints to meet a price point. "Fix it with DSP" is the remedy. For many enthusiasts, that may O.K. and enjoyable. No harm, no foul. But, to some discerning ears, one can hear these compromises and to @mijostyn 's point, it may not be worth the effort. Is the money better spent on more full range speakers or increasing the budget for the upper-level offerings from these sub manufacturers...? |
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