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ARC Ref 6 and Ref 10 opinions , talk, stories, buying options and opinions

Just for fun question. One of my thoughts from all you audophiles who own the Ref 6 or Ref 10 or anything below would like to know if you had a choice to buy a brand new Ref 6 or a used Ref 10 which would you go with. And i would love to hear your opinions on both of these preamps. 
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joeinid's avatar
joeinid
658 posts
 
Ref 10 all the way. It’s smoother, sweeter, less aggressive, has a bigger and better sound stage, There is absolutely no comparison. Ref 6 is good but if you value having the best experience, go for the Ref 10.
tattooedtrackman's avatar
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tattooedtrackman OP
884 posts
 
joeinid.... That being said by you. You would still go with a used 10 over a brand new 6 even if it was 5k more? 
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tattooedtrackman OP
884 posts
 
BTW i never heard the Ref 10 ( yet) .......But really itching to... 
joeinid's avatar
joeinid
658 posts
 
Hi,

If you could get a demo of the Ref 6 to make sure it’s for you, then that’s a different story. Friends have owned the Ref 6, in some cases twice, and moved on. I had a Ref 6 and I personally was not happy with it. I now own a Ref 10 and can not believe how amazing it sounds. The Ref 10 sounds so much more relaxed, smooth, has a wonderful pace, rhythm and timing that I never had from the Ref 6. The Ref 6 can be impressive at first but gets tiring over time when you realize the bit of aggressiveness on top. 

So, a used Ref 10 in good/great shape over a brand spanking new Ref 6.


tattooedtrackman's avatar
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tattooedtrackman OP
884 posts
 
Hi Joe. I have the Ref 6 and love it .But like i said i never heard the Ref 10 yet. I upgraded from the Ref 5se. I also heard that the Ref 10 was more suited for classical ,jazz music and the 6 more of a rock music preamp. And as i do listen to just about all kinds of music but my majority is about 70% rock. Maybe that is what draws me into the 6 more is the aggressiveness of it. 
fsonicsmith's avatar
fsonicsmith
957 posts
 
05-16-2018 10:48amHi,

If you could get a demo of the Ref 6 to make sure it’s for you, then that’s a different story. Friends have owned the Ref 6, in some cases twice, and moved on. I had a Ref 6 and I personally was not happy with it. I now own a Ref 10 and can not believe how amazing it sounds. The Ref 10 sounds so much more relaxed, smooth, has a wonderful pace, rhythm and timing that I never had from the Ref 6. The Ref 6 can be impressive at first but gets tiring over time when you realize the bit of aggressiveness on top.

So, a used Ref 10 in good/great shape over a brand spanking new Ref 6.
This from a gentleman who just three years ago got on this Board and asked for opinions as to the relative SQ of the GS150 vs.the Ref 150SE (they are functionally identical) and asking how hard it is to bias the Ref 150SE (about as hard as removing a bunch of screws to get the top off and then using a Fluke). Forgive me if I don't find you very authoritative about ARC gear. I've owned ARC gear for over a dozen years. The Ref 6 is the newer design but there is no getting around the fact that the Ref 10's separate power supply is going to provide sonic benefits by isolating the transformers from the sensitive output circuits. So yes, one should expect that a used Ref 10 if in good shape is going to sound slightly more detailed and relaxed than a Ref 6 but the Ref 6 is among the very top preamps existing on this planet. Mikey Fremer may not be perfect but he does have good ears and read his review of the Ref 6. It's a rave in every regard. Then audition one. The Ref 6 takes 400 hours for it's huge amount of capacitors, many of them quite large for a preamp, to burn-in. It is also extremely sensitive to cabling. I never found it "aggressive on top" but using Cardas Clear Beyond between my Ref6 and Ref 150SE made a huge positive difference over many other XLR's I tried. You can't go wrong either way. I would also recommend that anyone spending the price of admission for either invest in a good equipment rack. I upgraded from a typical mdf and rebar rack to a Symposium Osiris Ultimate and it was (IMO naturally) money well-spent. 
joeinid's avatar
joeinid
658 posts
 
I’m only giving my opinion, never claimed to be an authority. That’s great you love the Ref 6. It’s not for me or for friends of mine who have owned them. I’m a Conrad-Johnson fan but love the GSPre, Ref 10 and GS150. I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings with “my” opinion.
minorl
1,016 posts
 

I have heard both the REF 6 and REF 10.

I own a REF 6 and would no hesitation purchase a REF 10 if budget allowed.

The REF 6 does everything quite well.  If friends asked me, depending on what their budget was, I would tell them to take either a retubed REF 3, REF 5SE or REF 6 and if their system called for it and budget allowed, a REF 10.

The REF 10 is the best pre-amp I've heard and I've heard some amazing pre-amps.

Matched with REF 250SE or 750SE amps, and that part of the system will basically disappear sonically.

As I've mentioned in other posts, when you get to this level, you really aren't missing much and jaw dropping differences really don't happen.  Subtle sonic differences and nuances maybe. 

The real test is to A/B listen in your home system with a REF 6 and REF 10.  If that can't happen, then an A/B comparison in a store's system with a REF 6 and REF 10.  Changing nothing else but the pre-amp.

Another thing that I believe people do incorrectly when comparing equipment is that they don't make volume levels.

An apple to apples comparison would entail listening a the level you desire on device A, then place a test CD on at the same level and measure with a db sound level meter the db level.  Then, when satisfied, remove device A and insert device B and play the test tone and adjust the volume until it matched the first.  Then, listen to the same music.

I believe that many people perceive differences in sonics as superior/inferior when actually it is volume/gain levels that are the only difference.  I hear things like, the highs are more pronounced.  or the bass is lower.  But, my first question is, did you match volume levels first?

Anyway, if you have the system, budget and money, the REF 10 is simply great.  The REF 6 is high end great also.  Brand new, full retail, they both are stupidly expensive.  But, on the used market?  you can find really good value.

enjoy

tattooedtrackman's avatar
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tattooedtrackman OP
884 posts
 
joeinid.....Feelings were never ever hurt.... Thanks your your opinion
bifwynne
2,206 posts
 
Joeinid, how would you compare the Ref 5SE with the Ref 6. Leagues apart??
theo's avatar
theo
2,684 posts
 
I own a REF5se as well, but did also hear a REF10. My pocket book made the decision very easy for me. If my ears wrote the check, I would have a REF10. And as bifwayne asked, please share you opinions and experience between the 5 and 6. 
joeinid's avatar
joeinid
658 posts
 
It's been a long time but I'd personally choose a Ref 5SE over the 6 for myself. Even though there are some areas where I prefer the 6, the 5SE is easier for me to listen to long term.


 
Joeinid, how would you compare the Ref 5SE with the Ref 6. Leagues apart??

jonaiken
53 posts
 
I have owned the Ref 5SE, Ref 6 and now the Ref 10 and must say there is a noticeable difference between the units with the biggest difference noted when I went from the Ref 5SE to the Ref 6. However the Ref 10 takes it to another level by expanding the soundstage, providing more transparency and greater inner detail, and allows for improved dynamics, better bass definition and impact with smoother high frequencies. Going from the Ref 5SE to the Ref 6 is the best value but why stop there when the Ref 10 is available. I have recently upgraded the stock tubes in my Ref 10 and Ref 250SE's with the 6H30P-DR’s aka “Reflectors” and the Winged C SED 6550C’s …..now my Ref 10/250SE's combo is magical.
jetter
3,033 posts
 
This is a rather familiar post. Clearly, the only consensus among ARC preamp owners is that the Ref 10 or Anniversary are the best, and the improvement moving up the line from the Ref 3 is night and day for some and marginal to others. I would love to have been in a room with all of them to compare for myself.
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