Any of you guys throw away stuff that you've found wanting? If so,I was thinking of doing some serious dumpster diving. BTW, thanks for all the interesting information you guys put out. |
Steve, congratulations on getting your NWO2.5! I'm very happy for you and know your delight will increase considerably once you get 150 - 200 hours on it. I continue to love my NWO2.5 and will be posting a detailed review on it shortly. |
Guido,
Picking up on Alex's post, I've done a lot of experimentation over the past 2 years on the entire power delivery chain from the panel including wiring, outlets, power conditioning equipment and especially power cords. Specifically, I have owned Shunyata power cords including the pre-Helix and Helix versions of the Anaconda Alpha and VX as well as the Hydra 8. I have also owned PS Audio regenerators and Ultimate Outlets.
Before getting the NWO2.5 in December I owned the Linn CD12, Unidisk 1.1 and various versions of Mark Levinson digital gear.
My findings in no particular order are:
- The VX version of the Shunayta Anaconda PC rolled off the highs in my system on all of my digital equipment. I think the VX is best used on digital gear that is very edgy and/or noisy and therefore needs to be "tamed down". I greatly preferred the Alpha cable on all of my analog and digital gear.
- The Anaconda Alpha Helix was decided better than the non-Helix version and I upgraded to all Helix cables when they came out with them.
- However, I have found that a power cord comprised of two (one for hot and one for neutral - I don't use the ground) silver core conductors each with an oversized Telfon insulator yields better results than the Anaconda Helix Alpha on my NWO2.5 and darTZeel amplifier. This configuration is very similar to Alex's silver IC and SpC (which I also use now), but I made these up myself. I would caution a couple of things here. First, my results are IMS and IMO...YMMV. Second, if you live in an area with high EMI/RFI given that these PC's are unshielded they may pick up noise that is unacceptable. Last, they most definitely would not pass UL approval..:-). But, for me, they have significantly elevated the performance of my system, just like Alex's IC and SpC silver cables. BTW, I also replaced the stock copper braided cable in my Dynaudio Temptation speakers with Alex's silver core cable with fantastic results; all 54 feet of it.
Bottom line, my experience has been very favorable using an unshielded silver (ultra high purity I might add) core cable with Teflon insulator for all of my cables - power, interconnect and speaker. However, they might not work well in all systems. Many people regard silver cables as being "too bright"...IMHO this is not the cable. Rather, these silver cables "lay bare" your system showing up any edginess, brightness, noise, etc. you have. Before I got the NWO2.5 using all of this silver core wire would have probably made my ears bleed, but once you have a source of the extreme quality of the NWO2.5 and you deal with other sources of noise (power, vibration, etc.) you want to extract every bit of resolution it has to offer and my experience has been that Alex's unshielded silver core cables do that really well as do power cables with the same configuration.
Good luck with your experimentations! |
I used to have to go to a buddy's home, to listen to... What is your buddy's system, Steve? |
I finally have a little time to enjoy some music today, using the Ridgestreet Alethias PC. I have about 100 hours on NWO now, and all is progressing very nicely. I cannot say how much change there is from burn in, but, I can say that listening to Vaya Con Dios(What's a woman)I am hearing this well recorded disc, like I am in the venue itself. I canot say if this was recorded, in studio, or hall, but, it sure sounds like a hall. I am hearing the CD
with startling dynamic swings. Music is just natural, textured, and holistic, with the most amazing soundstage properties I have EVER had in my system. I love it when I have the hair on my neck stand up, and shivers down my spine. I am just loving the amount information that is REALLY on these little silver/gold disc's. I knew my speakers were fast, but, I have NEVER heard them sound this great.
I have also been amazed at listening lesser quality disc's from the 80's with my personnal choice of classic rock, just sound so much better than I have heard in years. I used to have to go to a buddy's home, to listen to Aerosmith(toys in the attic)Deep Purple(machine head)Black Sabbath(paranoid)The Who(who's next), Allman Brothers(eat a peach), David Bowie(ziggy stardust), Bad Company(bad company), Jethro Tull(aqualung), Eric Clapton(561 ocean blvd), Pink Floyd(the wall), Brecker Brother(brecker), Jimmy Hendrix(electric ladyland)et et et sound like I remember it in college. I have NEVER been able to get this type of sound from digital before, it needed to be analog, and top notch analog at that. Thank god, my wait and patience seems to be paying off handsomely.
WOW, I am smilin today. |
Fplanner, Guido,AckmanOO,I will be trying many, over the next few months, and will let you know what I like best. Remember, as in most things, the quality is too MY ears, in MY system, and is only MHO. YMMV. |
No hard feelings, Gandme.
Just counting the days.....till my NWO-2.5 arrives :-) |
1markr, today, could even be the day...Whasup buddy, this year going better? How is YOUR system sounding these days? |
Apologies to Peterb.... I did not start this thread...oopps |
I started this thread.... so I'm butting in.
I have a question for Alex; I just bought a Denon 3910 from Mike at Hotrod mods. It is a stage II mod w/your output board and super clock. How does this player compare to your full mod 3910? Will I be happy?
I talked with you briefly about the NW0-2.5 conversion of my Esoteric X-01. I made the choice to sell my Esoteric and keep my wife... |
Congrats 711! Maybe you'll let me hear it one day?
Enjoy! |
The NWO is just AMAZING in the quality of musicality, along with more definition, of detail I have ever heard from a digital player. I am smiling, happy, and even content. This has been a LONG journey, searching for the finest in musical reproduction....I have found it. |
Alex, your explanation corroborates my empirical findings. I found the Shunyata Anaconda Helix Alpha much preferable to my ears to its shielded VX sibling on X-01. See:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1146623467&openusid&zzGuidocorona&4&5#Guidocorona
Still no silver though. . . and complexly braided to boot.
I did try to fly to the Bay area all of last year, but all opps fizzled. Closest I will get in the next month will be L.A. . . . but I am working on some new opportunities that may bring me to the SF area before long. Stay tuned Alex! G.
|
Alex,
Can you give a few examples of good sounding powercords that use pure silver, unsheilded, and non-twisted?
Thanks! |
Guido, usually shielded power cords in combination with power conditioners or re-generators work very well with units utilizing switching power supplies.
Your X-01 Ltd has a dual R-Core linear power supply which, in my experience, works best without any power conditioning or re-generators (the X-01 and UX-1 have a built in EMI filter) and the use of un-shielded and, preferably, un-twisted power cords made of pure Silver.
As far as the Shunyata PC goes, may be Earflappin can give his summary since he has been using these extensively.
Hey, when are you going to visit? Any time soon? :-)
Regards,
Alex |
Alex, you made me curious! what types of PCs work best with linear PSs and what types with switching PSs? By the way, on my own X-01 Ltd I am using a Shunyata Helix Anaconda Alpha, rather than Purist Anniversary. |
Congrats 711 - you lucky dog! Regarding powercords, I am using a Harmonix Studio Master on my APL3910 which I really like. I have also heard good things about top of the line Kubala Sosna and Pranawire powercords. |
Steve, you're most welcome! Enjoy it! :-)
The Denons, as well as many other high-end digital products, has a switching mode power supply inside, while the NWO and many others have linear power supply.
The reason why I am bringing this up is because there is a huge difference between what power cord and power conditioner/regenerator will be used together with digital audio component having switching mode or linear power supply. This said; what works best with Denon might not be best with NWO.
Regards,
Alex |
Steve -
Congrats! I am certain it will make some beautiful music.
I will second Guido's comment on the Purist Anniversary Power cord on the X-01. I used the Anniversary PC on the X-01LE and found the cord to be a great match. FYI - they do take more burn in than the Dominus if I recall correctly. |
Congrats 711. I see you are going to try Purist Dominus PC. You may want to try also its newest top-flight sibling--the Anniversary. It works extremely well with stock X-01 Limited. G. |
Steve-
Congrats on your new toy. I know you've been waiting a while for it and we'll be interested to hear your reaction as it breaks in. Looks like I will also be getting one in the not too distant future.
Just put a VD Genesis PC on my 3910 and it made a tremendous positive difference, even more so than I had expected, replacing an Epiphany X. Rick S. told me it is quite a bit better than my Revelation PC and he was right - its at another level. Very impressive in my system and definitely worth a try, IMHO. |
AHHH, I finally received my NWO today, FedEx driver said I owed him a tip cause of the weight. 82lbs, WOW, what a gorgeous, well made, machine. I hooked it up cold, as soon as I got home, and walla, music, wonderful, harmonically rich, extended, detailed, tight deep bass, articulate midbass, glorious midrange, and treble to die for. Amazing, being cold, right out of the case. This is before any burn in, Man oh man, I am gonna have some fun here, fine tuning my system. I have been collecting power cords for the past couple months in anticipation of receiving my NWO.
Dominus
Stealth 5000
VD revelation
Ridgestreet latest(forget name)
suggestions, welcome
Brent, could ya lend me a Kubala?
My initial setup with the NWO was plugged into my conditioner, Alex told me to go straight to my dedicated line, cause, I was missing the TRUE sound of the player. I was real skeptical at first, but, I decided to give it a try. Man, what a difference, I will say this, I am really smiling right now, AND, I should have my custom speakers here next week, hopefully. I need to go listen to some music, cause it's been a long time since I have enjoyed my system so much. Alex, THANKS.
More to come...as machine burns in. |
Thanks guys for the advice. Let me point out that Alex's CDr of his previous Gyrodec/Denon 103R(?) versus Rockport/Zanden killed it. Now, I was unfamiliar with both recordings, but it seemed that the Rockport CDr had almost a line drawn across the soundstage, about halfway up. Now, this is not a critism of the Rockport set-up. It just shows what Alex is capable of. I believe he also had a motor-controller for the belt drive, that he designed. I hope to get some input on my analog(circa 1992 Linn,etc.) when I visit Alex soon. If this sounds like a kiss-up of Alex, I guess it is! Alex does something to music that escapes most people, I believe. I just have to mention that I have been exposed to Meitner and Oritek Audio(a huge bargain here), also. |
Mmakshak, your entry level APL 3910 does not have volume control built in so you can not go direct to the amps.
The NWO-2.5 has the volume built-in but, until now, it did not offer analog inputs. This was a problem for customers with vinyl setups. We now have Analog input option which allows for connection of any analog source including a phono preamp.
Since there are audiophiles who have the phonostage built in their preamps, we have decided to develop MC cartridge input for the NWO-2.5 as well. When ready, one would not need a phono preamp anymore. :-)
The "Rockport gentleman" does not have APL player for now, he has EMM Labs Signature. So far he did not have the chance to audition NWO-2.5 in his system.
Regards,
Alex |
Auidosu- I think the issue is lack of a phono stage in the
APL; analog is a ref to analog source i.e., turntable. |
Mmakshak,
Many amps have both RCA and XLR input, I guess that is the way you can still use analog. |
Forgive my brain-lock here. I have my APL 3910 going into a preamp, also. If one were to connect the 3910 directly, how would one still use his analog? Maybe I need to contact the Rockport gentleman, since he has the APL NWO 2.5, and likes the direct connection, I believe. I do know that he will find a way to still use his Rockport. |
Audiosu,
I owned MIT Oracle v1.1 cables. I would encourage you to try Alex's silver minimalist cables as they are excellent. Just start with one, e.g. the CD player to pre-amp interconnect.
Happy Listening,
Earflappin |
Bob, it can be 1.5 or 2.5V RMS.
Regards,
Alex |
Alex
What is the voltage output of the NWO 2.5?
Thanks
Bob |
Audiosu, the output stage inside the Denon is a version of my own preamp output stage. :-) This one is Single Ended.
The NWO-2.5 tube stage is differential (balanced) which, among other benefits, results in significantly increased output power and much lower output impedance, so it is considerably better than the one in the APL 3910. :-)
When it comes to NWO-2.5 and a preamp is like having two of your favorite SOTA preamps hooked up in series. Of course, one preamp would sound better than two in series making one of them redundant. :-)
Regards,
Alex |
Alex,
Totally agree! I used to have Mark Levinson 380s pre-amp. It is very decent amp. After I got my APL 3910 , I sold my 380S. |
I am currently using MIT oracle V2.1 interconnects on my APL 3910. I did not jave a chance to compare it with Alex's silver interconnects. I am happy with the V2.1 but interested in Alex's cable. |
There are very nice sounding preamps available, no doubt about it. I also have my own preamp design which has been sitting on the shelf unused for 2 years now.
Except for switching the sources and eventual phono stage built in, the preamp main function is impedance matching and attenuation (volume control). A preamp would be a benefit for any audio system in most cases.
The NWO-2.5 has enough output power to drive any cable or amplifier. It can even drive headphones directly hooked to its output. It also has unique remote controlled H-Attenuator with 0.5db step built in which takes care of the volume control. The H-Attenuator is made in a way that is absolutely transparent.
This said; as good as a preamp can be, the NWO-2.5 simply does not need it nor does it benefit from it, any preamp.
Regards,
Alex |
Guidocorona, if it's 6350 tubes perhaps he's talking Joule, not Atma (6SN7). Not to quibble but the Atma MP-1 is far better than "reasonably competent." |
Audiosu, I'm kind-of in the same boat as you. While I certainly believe in the source first, my speakers are from 1980, and they have one woofer that is just glued in, and inconsistent fasteners for the rest of the woofers and tweeters. It is this last thing that bothers me the most. You have to admit that we have an avenue to upgrade our players. It is exciting-which is how I would describe APL's players! I'de also like to mention Earflappin's suggestion about Alex's interconnects. I don't completely understand it, but on Alex's system, it made my very fine interconnects(which are used on my APL 3910) sound uneven. Alex's interconnects opened up a whole area in the highs that my interconnect overlooked. |
I do thussly stand correct Chungted. . . I really meant to say. . . what is that unmentionable pre that is slightly less transparent and has weaker impact than pure NWO-2.5? Per implication with OTL amps, if your pre were Atmasphere, having heard the reasonably competent Atmasphere and the world-class NWO-2.5 in separate rooms at the Denver AudioFest, I am not surprised of you finding the sound of your system with the interpolated pre to be just slightly wanting. |
I must say it is frustrating when a poster compares equiptment but does not disclose the actual name of the equiptment used in the comparison. It kinda makes mentioning the comparison useless to everybody besides the poster. |
Guidocorona
Comparing the sound with or without my pre-amplifier from NWO-2.5, the former is slightly less transparent and has weaker impact. I will not use strong words as "detrimental to overall sound".
The same pre was a perfect match with my CEC TL-0 transport + Audio Synthesis Discrete DAC. I have other system in my Canada home, using the same pre for Oracle transport + Audio Synthesis DAC. They also produce excellent sound for me. In both latter cases, with-pre sounds better than without. (Audio Synthesis has volume control. I let the volume of the pre stay at maximum and addjust the volume on DAC.)
Please allow me not mentioning the brand name of my pre. It is in fact a very good one (so I own two sets). It uses 6350 NOS tubes for gain stage. It probably is just not matching NWO. I will try the OTL mono blocks of the same brand in future. |
Chungted, what is the mystery pre that you found to be detrimental to the overall sound of your NWO-2.5-driven system? |
Thanks for the commercial message Alex. Nothing commercial Bob, just the truth and also a direct answer to a specific question asked by Dgarretson. Vinyl rig #1 (Teres 360) belongs to Hifirabbit here on Audiogon Vinyl rig #2 (SME30) belongs to Sychdeli here on Audiogon too. They can both speak up if what I said was not true. Regards, Alex |
Thanks for the commercial message Alex. |
I agree with Drubin & Alex as well. Actually, I'm on the other side, as it were. |
I'm curious which hi-end TT's and phono stages have been equalled by NWO2.5 RBCD. As reported by the owners, the NWO-2.5 equaled and sometimes outperformed the following vinyl setups: 1. Teres 360/Shroeder Reference/Lyra Olympus/Artemis PL-1 2. SME30/SME5/Kondo IO-J/Kondo phono pre. Regards, Alex |
"Buy the best source first and then work back towards the speakers. Only then can you know for sure how up to snuff the rest of your gear really is."
I agree with Drubin & Alex as well. Garbage in, garbage out. Each improvement to my modded CDP & upgrade to Vinyl in my system has revealed unanticipated refinement in existing downstream components & quieted the upgrade itch for a time. After you're done with the front end, you'll ID for certain what needs attention elsewhere.
Also, it's better to compare CDPs to the constant yardstick of great vinyl rather than to a another CDP. Having recently substantially upgraded both my vinyl rig and my modded SCD-1, I'm at the point that the best RBCD and hi-end vinyl is very close to a toss-up. If as reported the NWO2.5 RBCD is edging out great vinyl then it's one hot ticket. I'm curious which hi-end TT's and phono stages have been equalled by NWO2.5 RBCD. |
Alex
I tried to compare NWO-2.5 with or without passing through my pre-amplifier (tubed, famous brand). My pre-amp just restricted performance of NWO on transparency and dynamics. It is very sad that I have to retire my pre-amp from the system. |
The inverse is just as true. Moreso if you ask me. This may be true but you will have to spend substantial amount of money on downstream components while still not sure if they will truly reveal the source capabilities. The NWO-2.5 is also capable of simplifying things by proving a preamp redundant, especially with the upcoming Wi-Fi and Analog input options. So I think it would be a better idea building up on a solid base instead of starting from the roof. Just IMO! Regards, Alex |
Good point Drubin...in reality every piece of the chain is important to an optimal result.
The way I interpreted Chungted point, which was the basis for my response, was given an existing system (without regard for how it was put together) one is best advised to optimize from the source back to the speakers. Why? Because so many audiophiles switch out speakers, or cables or amps, or pre-amps, in search of better sound, when in fact, it is their source that is the weaker link in the chain.
Anyway, to each their own, there are lots of ways to nirvana in this hobby/obsession. |
Agree with Drubin.
Speakers first. |
Buy the best source first and then work back towards the speakers. Only then can you know for sure how up to snuff the rest of your gear really is. The inverse is just as true. Moreso if you ask me. |
