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Kal
Kal
Anyone listening to 24/196?
If so, what DAC are you using? The Benchmark can intake those signals, but it downsamples them to 110. The BelCanto can't take them. The Bryston BDA-1 is one of the few non-megabuck DACs that can take 192 as an input.
Anything else under 3k?
From Bryston materials: "The CS-4398 operates in one of three oversampling modes based on the input sample rate. Single-speed mode supports input sample rates up to 50 kHz and uses a 128x oversampling ratio. Double-speed mode supports input sample rates up to 100 kHz and uses an oversampling ratio of 64x. Quad-speed mode supports input sample rates up to 200 kHz and uses an oversampling ratio of 32x."
Anything else under 3k?
From Bryston materials: "The CS-4398 operates in one of three oversampling modes based on the input sample rate. Single-speed mode supports input sample rates up to 50 kHz and uses a 128x oversampling ratio. Double-speed mode supports input sample rates up to 100 kHz and uses an oversampling ratio of 64x. Quad-speed mode supports input sample rates up to 200 kHz and uses an oversampling ratio of 32x."
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Yes, although you need a different DAC for SACD, as it doesn't resolve to the PCM x/y khz format. What I mean is that something like the Bryston can decode all variants of x/y between certain parameters, but SACD is a different (DSD) process and is not compatable. Of course it is too early to tell, but PCM 24/192 will replace SACD. We have to see what Telarc and the others who are still recording and selling SACDs do, if they move to a Blu-Ray based 24/192 or not. I personally think it very well could happen, ergo my search for a DAC now for this. DXD is still, of course, king. Just think - in 10 or more years, we will be using DXD on our wristwatch-phones. |
One small interesting note, it seems the Bryston only takes 16-bit word length via USB (it can take the full 24 via other connections), wherease the Benchmark does take 24 via USB. From what I hear getting a decent sound card with AES is best, however, so that may be mute if one goes the AES route. The Receiver mentioned above and the item right above this one don't completely re-clock the signal from a quick read. I think reclocking to eliminate Jitter is important, and if we are playing with 24/196 I wouldn't even bother unless we are going to put serious equipment ahead of it. The Bryston sets a high standard!! |
Kijanki - tell me more. It outputs analog, so I assume you mean input? The literature says it downsamples to 110 even though ithas 192 kHz DACs - that is why I am confused by it. So you are saying they are doing that because they found with that particular DAC chip downsamples to 110 to reduce THD? That could be. But then we aren't getting the fluidity or fullness or whatever from 192, no? At 110, we could just as soon stay with 96? The whole point of going to 192 is to double the info over 96. The Bryston doesn't lower it and neither does the Berkeley, so perhaps it sounds better with the particular DAC chip the Benchmark uses - so in their case it could definitely be better. The biggest thing the Benchmark has going for it is value. The Benchmark could be the best way to get into this movement, and then as prices come down and more quality is available later, maybe 3 - 5 years, and in the meantime participate in downloading the 24/192 music and building a library - even though you would only be listening to it at 110. If you get the Berklely at 5k at this point, I wouldn't want to replace it in 3-5 years, but in 5 years it could probably be beaten at 1k or even less I would suggest. DACs are subject to the same phenomenon as digital cameras and other digital nonsense that falls in price by half each year. My amp is something like 12 years old and still seriously kicks butt. DACs don't age like that, so I'm hesitant to spend more than 1k on a DAC. People spent 20 or 30k on the dcs equipment not 8 or 10 years ago, and there are those who claim that the 2k Bryston is in the class of the '99 era dcs gear. (I have absolutely no idea myself, as I don't play in the 20k+ gear range.) The Bryston, while over 1k, does have me intruiged, though. But 5k is too much for something that devalues with such strong intensity - I'm not that well off! Pretty good, but not that good! 5k is still a lot. Heck, 1k is still a lot! The Altman Attraction does look interesting, I'll continue to read more about it. |
Lightminer - "1k is still a lot!" - Yes it is. Benchmark is an upsampling DAC - it takes input data stream and reclocks it with asynchronous clock. Usampling (oversampling) ratio of 1 million times would not be possible for physical reasons (1 million * 44.1kHz = gazzillions) but input samples are redundant and only exact moment of time to output them to filter/Dac is important. Benchmark is taking statistical average of its clock to be accurate within 5ps. I have exact description of operation in chip's datasheet if you're interested. Upsampling/oversampling in general is allowing to use gentle filters with even group delays (to allow proper summing of harmonics) - necessary to get rid of any frequency above 22.05kHz that might fold (Nyquist) into 0Hz and up. There is no resolution lost if you update at 100kHz instead of 192kHz since output DACs resolution is still 24-bit but some bandwidth is sacrificed. Benchmark probably felt that THD is little more important than the extra bandwidth. Benchmark rejects jitter allowing to use cheap transport and cheap digital cables. It is serious DAC with 140dB S/N ratio but many people call it sterile or cold. Bel Canto DAC3 migh be warmer and according to Stereophile sounds a little better but it is 2x more expensive. I have Benchmark and like the sound plus functionality (DVD, HDTV, volume control) but my exposure to top DACs or CD players is minimal - I'm more on technical side of things. You might find other DACs (incuding non-oversmpling) that sound better to you. I would pay less attention to technical description and more to sound you like and synergy with the rest of your system. If you decide to buy Benchmark - get the latest USB version for $300 more. It has better output drivers and USB functionality is a plus. Avoid used - early Benchmarks had some problems (like too high output impedance on RCA outputs or cold sounding OP-Amps). Warranty is 5 years and Benchmark has free 30 day tryout/lease program. People who travel a lot take USB Benchmark with a Laptop computer and top quality headphones (Benchmark has decent two headphone amps built in) to have high-end audio on the run. |
Just an interesting note a half year later, looks like 24/96 PCM is gathering steam as the next standard, although in the computer-digital world it will probably be a mix (i.e., 24/88.2 is currently also very common), but overall 24/96 FLAC set to level 6 compression has a slight lead over everything else from what I can tell. |
I downloaded some 24/96 albums from HDTracks. You can never speak in absolutes on these things because there are so many variables but they clearly sound better to me. There's a certain something there (an anolog sounding somthing) that is an improvement over regular redbook. I wold have everything in 24/96 if I could. Nicely fluid, detailed, organic, whole from top to bottom. |
My DCS upconverter outputs to 24/192. However, in running the digital 24/192 signal to my DCS DAC, I am required to use two balanced digital cables or a firewire cable as regular digital coaxial or toslink digital optical cable do not have the capacity to carry the digital signal at this level (at least according to DCS). The DCS stuff is pretty nice as it allows various filtration algorithms to be applied and other adjustments. However, in the 24/192 these filters are not available as their manuals state that when processing at these levels [24/192], these additional controls are not necessary. |
I downloaded some 24/96 albums from HDTracks. You can never speak in absolutes on these things because there are so many variables but they clearly sound better to me. There's a certain something there (an anolog sounding somthing) that is an improvement over regular redbook. I wold have everything in 24/96 if I could. Nicely fluid, detailed, organic, whole from top to bottom. Absolutely; theres no question about it. Also try http://bluecoastrecords.com/ which has a limited selection of exceptionally well-recorded acoustic material, which is recorded live on location and produced/recorded with great care. The Keith Greeninger stuff is fantastic (you can listen to samples prior to buying the download). The files are in 24/96 WAV, but you can convert them to Flac if you want to via "Foobar" (which is a free download). |
I have a Northstar 192 Mark II DAC that can take the 24/192 signal. This is actually a pretty darn good dac and if you have a CDT/P outputting this signal, it may be worth your consideration. They are $2500-2700 new (I am not sure of the exact price), but can be purchased used for under $1,500 easily. I bought this DAC only to try out as I was buying a Northstar transport. I never intended to keep the DAC (unless it outperformed by DCS stack - which I felt was extremely unlikely - and accurate). But it did do a great job and for that price, was a really incredible piece. I can also take an I2S input from a computer and you can output from your computer at the 24/192 rates. |