They were either 89$ or 99$ each. |
Calvinj,
For the Siemen's tubes in the EAR Acute, is there any listening fatigue at all? Is there any warmth or is it straight neutral? Not looking for anything TOO clean or TOO analytical where it becomes bright. Trying to find a tube that is smooth from top to bottom but very detailed and airy but controlled as well. Is the Siemens a good fit? If so, will give Kevin a call for an order. Tough call between the Siemens vs. the Amperex 7308's. Thanks again for your insights. |
I had the amperex and the high were not airy and the soundstage was smaller. The Siemens are clean but they don't cause listening fatigue. The soundstage was huge and they score well with me on the EAR Acute because they don't have glaring weaknesses. I had one of me close audio friends over this weekend and he hates anything that gives listening fatigue. It's a no no for him. He loved the sound and it wasn't too fatiguing to him. I'm the same way but he is that way even more than I am and he enjoyed it immensely. I would get the Siemens if I were you. |
Calvinj,
Do you know which Amperex 7308's you used? I know there is a white label, green label, and orange label, and also one's made in Holland and the USA. Each has a different sound, with the 1960's white label getting the best reviews for soundstage and body and detail. Not sure if you ordered them from Upscale or somewhere else. I did call Dan at EAR USA and he uses different tubes in his player - one Amperex and one Mullard (his preference for his tastes). Just an FYI if you wanted to experiment with the sound of your EAR - you don't have to use the same tubes but can mix and match. Seems like having an assortment on hand would be best. Money of course can impact this. |
True. I think I have the orange label. I know you can mix the tubes a little. I eased to have an e.a.r preamp. The thing I like is the tube rolling. It's like have a new piece of gear without spending all of the money. Lol. It's a great CD player. I'm very happy with the performance and options |
I'm thinking about trying the ediswans based on a recommendation from a really good audiophile I know |
Are you already getting tired of the Siemens? Why the change? Based on your previous posts, seemed like you really loved the Siemens.
I just ordered a pair of Siemens from Brent Jessee and will let you know my thoughts. Should be burned in about a week or so. I'm able to return them if they not what I am looking for but hoping for things to open up and still be extremely musical and engaging. Upscale only had the Siemens A-frame which was from the 1970's, and Brent had the early 1960s Siemens 6922 that he says will have a more fuller bodied midrange with the same detail and airiness of the other Siemens. Have not heard much about the Ediswans other than the reviews on the Upscale website. |
Does any of you guys own the newest Acute4 ?
I have been reading about it and would be interested in hearing from anyone whom has auditioned this spinner?
Keep me posted & Happy Listening! |
No,
I own the Acute 3. The Acute 4 is two separate units and double the cost of the Acute 3. I bought my Acute 3 used so it is quite a lot more money, though I'm sure it would be fantastic. |
I'm not tired of them. They sound great. I'm always curious in audio. I like to try things. I want to see how much of a different sound that the ediswans have. I'm want to see what will happen. The reason I love the EAR is because I can change it up a little and get great sound without spending a fortune. |
Calvinj, keep me posted on your tube experiments. Do you have any other tube gear in your system? What is the rest of your system (amp, speakers, etc.)? I am running my EAR through a Primaluna Integrated Amp, so thinking I will be experimenting with those tubes next. My preamp and driver tubes on my integrated that drive my power tubes are all 12au7's, so there is a lot of good NOS tube options that may enhance my EAR sound. Enjoy the fun! |
I'm running the gato fm6 from Denmark. I have the kr audio va900 "The Baby Kronzilla" tube amplifier. I use the ear acute CD player. I use the the Resonessence Mirus dac. I use cabling from high fidelity, clarity cable and atlas mavros. I will be trying the ediswans tubes in my EAR next so far the Siemens are far ahead of all else I've tried. |
Maybe also try one Siemens and one Ediswans too. Were the Amperex's a dud? Thinking of trying an Amperex with the Siemens when they arrive too. I can see how this can addicting yet so fun. I know what you mean! |
I talked to my tech about EAR products. He said the products sound good but the way they are put together is not first rate. He also said they used the cheapest parts available. He said for what they are charging you should get a better made product. |
In absolute terms, what isn't overpriced in high-end audio? I personally would not buy anything for the listed manufacture price, but that could just be me. The build quality may not be as good as other competitors, but everybody I've talked to (dealers and non-dealers) say Tim's circuitry design is unbelievable which is the reason the sound quality is so good. Granted, he could use better parts. but that would certainly drive the price even more which would exclude me from being able to buy. I can understand your issues with the parts he uses though. If you can find a used EAR Acute 3, I would say the price is worth the performance, even with the questions about the build quality. The flexibility of tube rolling is a bonus as well to help tailor the design to your liking. There is much debate in the digital world though and beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. |
@taters. I be heard some of the same comments however when it comes to sound quality they sound great. I'm glad it delivers sound wise because they cost more than other brands but if you are seeking sound quality as a first on your check list they are a must try. Build quality could be better but I rather say that thang be unhappy sound wise. You can get both but that will cost you a recent model used car. Lol. |
Tried the Siemens 6922 - WOW! All the attributes are correct - very neutral without any body whatsoever. Detailed, fast, and open. i loved the Siemens on some types of music but miss the warmth/richness on some types of genres. I was actually surprised how neutral the sound was. I have laid back speakers in my Sonus Faber Olympica's and EL34's in my Primaluna. Luckily it is relatively easy to change out. Think I will experiment with some Amperex White Labels and maybe 1 mallard to have on hand and that should do it. The Ediswans could also be in the mix. Let me know what you hear CalvinJ. CalvinJ, do you take the recommendation of having the volume output turned all the way up on the EAR Acute and then adjust the volume accordingly on your amp/integrated amp? |
Tim doesn't put "boutique" parts in EAR products not to save money, but because he doesn't find they lead to better sound or greater reliability. What he DOES do is use parts with voltage ratings that exceed the voltages the parts will see in the circuit they are used in.
Two other designer/manufactures who share Tim's view on this subject are Roger Modjeski and Frank Van Alstine, both known for offering products with very high price-to-performance ratios. There are some other companies selling higher priced electronics that never-the-less contain parts with voltage ratings barely meeting what the circuits they are used in call for, leading to those products less-than-stellar reliability record. |
Didn't know that Bdp24 - thanks for sharing |
Thanks BDP24. That is good to know! Also, I am learning a lot from the information regarding tube rolling. Thanks All. |
I always thought Van Alstine priced their gear at the lower end of the spectrom. It seems like EAR prices their gear on the higher end of things. I think the biggest problem with EAR is there customer service. I have read quite a few threads about their lousy customer service. Though no one has ever complained about the sound quality. |
I've owned the EAR Acute 3 for about 1 1/2 years and have never had one issue with the player. It is without a doubt the most musical player I've ever heard or owned. I would also recommend tube rolling as a good NOS tube provides that little bit of magic people talk about. The only player I would be interested in going to would be the new Acute 4/DAC 4 combo. |
@djfst. I turn the ear all the way up and use the volume control of kr audio va 900 integrated. The seimens on my bebop Jazz is great. It very detailed, fast and open. Needs a little more body but soundstage is huge and wide. I know the reviewer used kubala sosna emotion with the ear. They add warmth richness and body from what I hear about them. But just a slight bit. I'm going to try the ediswans because my dealer suggested. He has a taste warmth and richness so I will try. I tried mullards in my old Ear 868 and I hated it. Sound like a thick flannel blanket. |
Sense63 - Which NOS tubes have you tried and which ones were your favorite? What are musical tastes? Always glad to hear of another who loves the EAR Acute. It is a great player. |
I live a 15 minute drive from Van Alstine, twice in last couple months I've taken gear over to him to fix loose jacks which were MY fault for using death-grip locking IC's
He showed me why it happened, fixed them both on the spot,charged me nothing,.let me listen to his yummy new Janzen electrostatics and was I on my way in 30 minutes . |
CalvinJ,
Just talked with Kevin at Upscale - did you ever try his Telefunken E88CC/6922's on his site? He said that are very open and have a sweeter midrange than the Siemens. These are interesting to me as well. |
In the 1970's Frank Van Alstine had the stones to offer a slight redesign of the pre-amp everyone considered THE pre-amp to own, the Audio Research SP-3. In his writings he explained exactly what his circuit changes did (improved the SP-3's linearity, improved the phono stage's low-frequency overload characteristics and corrected it's slight RIAA EQ curve inaccuracy--- main priorities in Frank's designs), and why the SP-3 needed those changes. It proved that, though Bill Johnson was a fine designer, he wasn't omnipotent! |
I'm running a pair of the Telefunken E88CC from Upscale in my Aesthetix Romulus Eclipse. This CDP takes 1 pr 6dj8 and 1 pr 12ax7.
The Funkies are definitely very nice. I would describe them as "clean".
BTW: I too would like to hear the new Acute DAC. |
Yes, I also owned an Acute CDP, liked the "sound" very much. |
Tried the telefunkens I have them still. I liked the seimens better. Bigger soundstage. The telefunkens were a little too hot up top on my player. |
I'm also using Mullard 12ax7s which might be balancing the Telefunkens. I've not heard the the Telefunkens on their own so what you're saying may be true. |
"Sense63 - Which NOS tubes have you tried and which ones were your favorite? What are musical tastes? Always glad to hear of another who loves the EAR Acute. It is a great player."
Telefunken and Tungstram tubes. I listen to a lot of different music, but mainly acoustic, folk, jazz, classic rock. |
Can't handle the Siemens - too liner, too cold and analytical. Not engaging or musical to me. Could be my system compatibly or simply my listening tastes, so take with a grain of salt. I know the tubes were high quality, as got them from Brent Jessee who graded and matched them. Going to return them back to Brent. Brent recommends Amperex Holland White Label 7308's from early 60s, so will give these a try. Ediwsans will be next on my list though I expect the Amperexs should do the trick for more musicality, body, sweetness and soundstage. Let's hope! |
I talked to Tim at the recent T.H.E. Show, and he told me Mullard's are his favorite tubes. |
Are Mullard's what he puts in his CD players/DACS? |
Tim liking the Mullard sound does not surprise me. Most of his stock tubes are most characteristic of the Mullard sound - very full bodied and warm at the expense for clarity and extension. His stock tubes are actually quite good if that's what your after.
I've just put in a pair of 7308 Holland Amperex NOS tubes and have about 30 more hours of burn in time. So far, everything is excellent. The only quibble is the bass is a bit bloated but this hopefully will tighten up with the burn in time. Otherwise, I may have found my perfect tube. If bass doesn't tighten, I will try one Amperex and one Siemens to see how they blend. At least it is really fun! Great CD player though. |
@dgfst I have the ediswans that were delivered today. However I have my Ear CD player being looked at to fix a screw that I messed up taking off the top. I also am just having my tube audio guy just look at it as a whole I will be getting it back Tuesday of next week. I will report out then. I still like the Siemens but I do agree they could have more body and be a little more musical. |
They mullards are warm but they see to cover up the detail a little too much. I like my music slightly to warm side but no too far. |
Arsh---No, Mullards are no longer being produced (if they are, new ones are not the ones Tim was speaking of. He was very dismissive of current-production tubes in general), I don't believe. You have to get them from a vintage tube dealer if you want them. What tubes he puts in his player/DACS I don't know. |
Arsh,
Dan Meinwald, the EAR USA rep, uses one Amperex 7308 and one Mullard (all New Old Stock tubes) in his EAR Acute. His stuff always sounds great and is highly regarded in the audio industry, even from non EAR dealers I've spoken to. That may be a good starting point. I personally like that sound but would like to get a bit more sound extension based on other system component. Your listening tastes and other system components should also be considered when deciding which tubes to put in. Dan Meinwald thought putting 2 amperex tubes would be too lively, but my system is already warm and laid back with my Primaluna EL34s and Sonus Faber Olympica speakers. A little more liveliness and soundstage with some warmth is where i need to go.
If you go on other forums and reviews, many have put the Siemens in the EAR Acute and loved it. I read one review on Upscale Audio of a reviewer loving the Telefunken 6922's. On reviewer positive feedback put in Ediswan, while another reviewer put in Mullards. there really isn't a right or wrong. It comes down to your tastes, genres of music you listen to, and other components of where it lends and what you are trying to do.
The one thing I'm not yet sure of is how changing some tubes of my Primaluna Integrated Amp will impact the sound of the EAR Acute. I've only tube rolled the EAR Acute thus far. Not sure what substituting some 12au7 NOS tubes on my Primaluna preamp section will do with the EAR Acute hooked up to it. If the Amperex's are good overall, but could use a bit more clarity, maybe a more transparent 12au7 tube would be the way to go. How big of an impact will that make to a CD player hooked up to it, I have no idea. Any body ever do this in a similar situation? What effect did changing amp or preamp tubes make as to change tubes out in the actual source CD? |
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Fellas, it also depends on your tastes and other components as well. There is not a perfect sound out there. Just a sound that fits your tastes. The Siemens to me made the soundstage huge which I like. You can also use one each of different tubes to achieve your sound goals. This is also why I like the player so much. I'm having my tube guy check the entire player out since I bought mine used. |
I got the ediswans today. Got my player back. The ediswans are very moderately warm and very full. Non offensive highs. Nice soundstage. Bass could be a little tighter. Could also have a little better separation. If you like your music to the warm side this is the one for you. I think they could be a little more open. I heard mullards before and I prefer these to the Millard sound. I will try mixing tubes now since the ear allows you to do that I will report back soon. |
I've got Ediswan's in my Acute 3. I agree in that they could be a little more open. Let us know what tube you swap in. I might try one 7308. |
I swapped in the Siemens for one of the ediswans it was a little better but it could still be more open. Plus the layering could be better. I wish I could try the kubala sosna interconnects emotions. They add slight warmth without taking away openness from what I see from forums that I have researched. I might have to figure out a way to get them in my system. The reviewer that liked the Siemens used kubala sosna emotions. I'm going to mix the ediswans with amperex and telefunkens next. |
Yes, there are new tubes being labeled Mullard. |
I always liked my Acute with the original JJs, but I bought a pair of 6DJ8 Amperex Bugle Boys from Andy at Vintage Tube Services in 2012 and they sound just great, IMO. Full-bodied, detailed, not harsh. I've seen no reason to fool around with other tubes since then. They were a bit expensive, $266 for the pair shipped, but well worth it, IMO. |
The most balanced I've tried are the Amperex 7308 White Labels, USA version. The Holland version 7308 had a bit too much emphasis on the midrange at expense of losing a lot of instrumentation and detail. The White Label USA 7308 is the best at being detailed but without being too lean, as it is still full bodies and a bit warm. I would trie the White Label, CalvinJ. I ordered mine from Brent Jessee at www.audiotubes.com. You can return them if they don't work out. But I think this is the best balance of detail, soundstage, and warmth, and jazz piano and vocals are all excellent.
You also may want to try swapping the positions of the tubes if you are using 2 different tubes, as the position definitely matters. I noticed the sound takes more of the sonic quality of the tube in the front position (closest to the front panel) in my Acute 3. |
