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Anyone ditch the sub after large speaker purchase?

I am about to kick the subs to the curb. Having recently acquired a pair of custom made Classic Audio Loudspeakers T1.5 reference, they provide me with enough deep and articulate bass that I don’t even bother with using subs anymore. I mean prodigious amounts of bass...not the bass that is just heard, but also felt, even in the rear listening chairs at the back of the room, which is almost 30 feet away. It feels like I have subs with these new speakers.


Yeah, it’s when playing loud that the rear end of the room is so vigorously energized...and not because of nasty room acoustic anomalies, the seats pick up the pressurized air due to the room being pressurized with 300 tube watts per channel driving highly efficient field coil horn speakers with 18 inch downward firing bass driver and 15 inch forward firing bass driver.


In almost 25 years of sub use and integration with various systems, I find that my newly customized room designed around the principals of room mode mitigation, noise abatement, and damping resonances based on my experience in building secure sound proof spaces, has paid off.


There is nothing like playing music at low levels or loud levels with clarity and preciseness in bass when the stars are aligned and that is why I don’t feel the need for subs anymore. My bass is so awesome with these large almost 400 pound speakers and my amps enjoy driving them to room shaking levels if I played loud enough. Of course, the room investment itself was a considerable factor in my positive listening experience which at Its core is concrete all the way around except the ceiling.


When I stream music, I have to actually turn down the bass of the audio settings in my streamers audio settings. When playing vinyl, the bass goes so deep that I felt as if the subs were on, when in fact, they are not. I am tired or messing around with measurements and dialing in subs for now. It’s not needed and I see why people with large speakers don’t have subs. Perhaps, later on in this audio journey, I might experiment with some type of bass resonators, but I ask myself why? I have all what I need and am not missing anything in terms of bass.


Anyone else ditch the subs after large speaker purchase? What’s been your experiences?
audioquest4life

Showing 3 responses by erik_squires

erik_squires
15,861 posts
 
Hey ricred1

Well, I’m of two minds. I agree with your statement, but ...

A full range, 3-way speaker in an ideal room can perform really well. The key here being "ideal room." That spaciousness we hear I think is in large part from Doppler distortion in the midrange. A 3-way speaker can eliminate this just as well as a sub.

The ability to EQ, and placing a sub in a location better than the satellites however is often a more pressing need for those of us who cannot afford custom builders.

Then there's the q about how the average music lover who has dabbled in audio get to "well integrated sub" that I always wrestle with.  I've given up, I think the average listener should rely on a system like Dirac or Anthem's ARC or the various similar systems to do this for them.


Best,

Erik
erik_squires
15,861 posts
 
I guess my point is, you didn't ditch the sub after a speaker purchase.  You ditched the sub after making a custom listening room. :-D
erik_squires
15,861 posts
 
In almost 25 years of sub use and integration with various systems, I find that my newly customized room designed around the principals of room mode mitigation, noise abatement, and damping resonances based on my experience in building secure sound proof spaces, has paid off.


Yes, indeed. A great room is a lot more speaker friendly. You eliminate a number of issues related to room/sub/speaker integration here as well. I’m not saying they can’t be overcome, but that few do it well.

But if you were to put those same speakers in a modest, average living room, I’m sure I could beat their performance with subs, EQ and bass traps. :-)

The only way to tell if you need bass traps is to measure, or experiment. No room modes? No reason. You’ll just suck bass out of the room. Using Roon in a great room? A little PEQ in the digital domain may be all you need.


Best,

E
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