I am bi-amping my Wisdom Adrenaline 75 speakers using Rowland 8Ti/HC on the bass units and a pair of Red Rose Model 1 tube monoblocks on the ribbons.
This seems to work fine, but of course the Wisdom speakers include their active "Brain" electronic cross-over/equalizer which allows gain adjustment to the planars and woofers separately, so I can adjust the relative volume with ease. I can also adjust the "Q" of the woofer units.
Craig Zastera |
I'm currently using a Parasound HCA1500A to power the bass and a Sonic Frontiers Power 2 to power the panels on my Innersound ISIS speakers. Sounds great, but I understand/ have been told that it would sound even better if I added an active crossover. I run a REL STRATA III subwoofer off of the Parasound.
Does anyone know if I need to get a 3 way crossover, or if I can use a two way and continue to run the REL off of the SS amp? |
This approach gives the best of two worlds,the transistor amp will produce better low end response and the tube amps will produce sweet mids and high's My system is set up this way and my lows are crossed over at 250 hz down my tube amp are set at a 6db slope above works super. |
a..a!
who sais that gain of amp is fixed?? the word "impedance" already dictates that the gain of amplifier is not fixed.
crossover interfaces as a "third-party" component limiting visible freequencies of each amplifier.
with no active crossover even slight difference in gains at the particular freequency can cause a great deal of distortions and loss of a tonal balance; realy, the tolerance is too damn small to even match to same models(must be matched to each other good good good).
and yes the gain is controlled by impedance and and impedance is depended on freequency that is controlled by active crossover. |
Your post above specifies the need to controll gain dynamically. Can you clarify what that means? As I understand it, an amplifier has a fixed nominal gain. It is nominal because there is some reactivity to complex loads. So the gain may at a particular frequency may be a product of the impedance at that frequency. But the overall gain characteristic is fixed (unless of course there are level controls on the amp). Therefore, I don't get what "dynamic control" means. Is the idea that the active cross-over adjusts filtering in real time based on the level of the input signal? What is dynamic about the filter? I thought the only distinction for active cross-overs was that each speaker element is driven by one and only one amplifier, unlike passive bi-amping. |
My experience has been that I can use different amps to bi-amp as long as I keep the x-over under 200 HZ as in an upper bass or sub-woofer application. Much above that frequency and the differences between the amps becomes apparent as I approach the midrange leading to a discontinuity in the sound.
Jeff |
I am biamping my MG 3.5s with a Marchand 126s (Balanced I/O) active x-over. I am using ARC VT100 MKII for the treble/midrange and Kenwood L07 monoblocks for the bass panels. The results are incredible. Careful selection of output levels and x-over points and slope are required for seamless blending. In order to faclitate blending of the amps, I used a 6dB/octave @ 250 Hz slope for the high pass, whereas for the low pass I used a steeper slope, 18 dB/octave at 200Hz. In general, I would recommend a gradual slope for the high pass section and a steeper slope for the low pass (assuming that the solid state amp is driving the bass of your speaker). |
I think you would need arround 8 watts plus so 12 would work great .hope this helps I tried much gear to get a great match .JK |
Gain controll isn't a bottom line here.
The gain should be controlled dynamically unless the amps at the top and bottom end have absolutely identical characteristics.
To controll gain dynamically you need an active crossover and remove built-in speaker crossover. |
My Parasound has gain control knobs on the rear panel. Will that help with the gain problems?
Also, what do you think would be a minimum amount of power for the mids & highs in my setup. There's another company that makes a pair of SET monoblocks that have 12wpc and it's within my price range. Would this be a better option for me? |
Johnk makes a good point. If you can, BORROW a low wattage amp to try before you buy. |
Gain problems for u,94db ,2 watts and 200+ on the woofers you are going to have gain problems ,94 db would be better to run a 300b or so[8+ watts] 2 watts will not work for you unless its only back ground music in a small room ,94db works out to only 97db 1 watt 1 meter so only low 90s available at the listening position .If you buy the 2 watt you will be selling it on the gon soon .Happy listening JK. PS 3.5 watts wasent enofe on my 103 db horns |
I will do that. I'm planning keeping my 205 wpc Parasound HCA-1500a for the bass. The amp I'm looking at is a single-ended-triode from WWW.Space-tech-lab.com
The amp has only 2wpc but the speakers they'll be powering are pretty efficient. (Coincident Triumph Signatures 94db)
I will definately let you guys know how it turns out.
Thanks for the info.
meech |
Meech33, why not try it and tell us what you come up with on your end?! I would like to know your results. YOu could easily pick up even a modesly, yet excellent sonic tube amp and solid state combo for great sound. But, I would like to know your results. Let us know if you do. |
Wavac md300b tube amp on the horns ,threshold t100se on my bass towers ,works great tried tubes they sounded nice but where a bit weak in the low bass .JK |
I biamp with Sonogy amps for 220hz on down and Lamm ML1s above that, but I have an active crossover and a 4-piece system. There are always some potential sonic continuity problems, particularly with a crossover point that high, which are minimized by this combination, but I agree with Eldartford that the sonic characteristics of the amps, while potentially noticable, are not as big a problem as you might think. If you don't have an outboard active crossover you may run into amplifier input sensitivity and gain problems, though (for example, when I replaced my Jadis amps with the Lamms, I had to reduce the bass level on the crossovers significantly because the Jadis had a higher sensitivity, and thus subjectively played louder with less input, than the Lamms). |
I'm doing this. My speakers are Martin Logan Odyssey, the amps are a Classe CA-200 for the bass and a Counterpoint SA-220 for the top. The speakers are set up for biwiring/biamping, so that was easy. My preamp is a Counterpoint SA-11 and it has three sets of outputs so that was also dead easy. One set goes to each amp, the third set goes to the subwoofer inputs. I use the crossovers in the Odyssey. Level matching started out a little tricky but I also got incredibly lucky in this area. Although the spec ratings for the two amps are fairly different (7 dB) measurements showed that they were close to 2dB apart, with the bass amplifier a little too hot. Then I remembered that the speakers have a 3dB cutout switch. This is intended to help in bass-heavy rooms, but in my case it turns out to only cut bass by around ... 2dB! Incredible luck. |
Yes, I am.........I am using (now) the ASL Hurricanes (tubes) for the top and a Perreaux 3150B (SS) for the bass. I did a full review of the 'canes describing the amplification for my system. Take a look at it under product reviews.
RWD |
add an active sub to tubes and there you go... |
The monster biamped systems I have seen actually went tubes on both . But tube and SS on bottom would also work great ! |
There was a thread last week or so on this. Go either to member lookup for member Kcw001 who started the thread or to thread Bi amping with tube and solid state in forum search. I have done this and sometimes still do. What speakers are you using and which amps. Outboard crossovers are often needed because amps have different gains and speakers have built-in crossovers that come into play. |
c'mon guys,,,,,,,,,,,,I need help here. |
Not now, but I did that in the past (when a tube amp was what I had on hand). Don't let anyone tell you that the different types of amplifiers have different sonic characteristics that will be a problem. Remember, they are driving very different types of loudspeakers, and the difference between loudspeakers will swamp out any subtle differences of amplifiers. |
