Anthem STR preamp vs Integrated amp preamp section

Hello dtximages,

My name is Chris and I'm a Regional Sales Manager for Paradigm and Anthem and thought I would share what I know, because I realize finding out more in depth information regarding our products isn't the easiest thing to do.  As big a company as we are, we sometimes still operate like a smaller one, particularly when it comes to our marketing.  Spec sheets won't give you a whole lot in terms of how things really sound.  They can give you an idea of what to expect, but not what the actual sound will be like.  It's like specs on a car and until you drive it, you just don't know.  

I can't speak to the differences between the amplifier section of our Integrated and the sound of your PS Audio Amps, but I can talk about the differences between our STR Integrated and STR Preamp in relation to the preamp sections of each.   My guess is your amps will have a big advantage over our Integrated, but it is very good for the amount of money it is. There are just too many advantages to having full separates and our STR Preamp is substantially better than the preamp section in our STR Integrated.  

The quick obvious advantages the STR Preamp has over our STR Integrated Amp is a nice dedicated power supply for just the Preamp alone, not sharing or having to supply power for the amplification section in addition to the Preamp and DAC sections, so there will be less noise between circuits as a result of that. 

The STR Preamp is a fully balanced design in the Digital section as well as in the analog.  Having the fully balanced analog output section when connecting to an external Amplifier that's balanced, will sound better.  You also don't get that if you bypass the amp in the Integrated - it only has single ended outputs.  So, you lose the true balanced board with XLR connections which the sonic benefit is a -6dB lower noise floor and getting +6dB back in gain.  The board has to be balanced in the electronics to have that sonic advantage.  Some electronics only offer the connection, but would have no difference in sound between that and single ended cable connections.      

The DAC and Phono sections benefit with a more robust post DAC section in the STR Preamp.  The DAC's in the Preamp and Integrated are the same on the front end going in, but the post DAC section has been upgraded in the Preamp.  We also use more hand selected parts in the Volume Control as well. 

Mating Subwoofers in a Mono, Dual Mono, or Stereo Sub configuration with the STR Preamp has the advantage of having balanced outputs for two Subs.  Also, the Hometheater Bypass with the STR Integrated doesn't have "Sub In", which means you can't do bypass for subs like you can with the Preamp.
    
In terms of the way the Preamp and Integrated works, it's exactly the same.  All of the differences are internal which you just can't physically see.  I hope this gives you a better overview of each, but feel free to reach out directly to me here or you can go through our factory and get in touch with me anytime if you have further questions. 

Thanks,
Chris 

Thank you Chris. That's VERY informative... However, somewhat disturbing since I did email Anthem's support and was told twice there is NO real difference.  

" Hello,  
The only difference is the type and amount of connections on the back, the preamp has more types (XLR) vs the integrated while the integrated has the amplifier channels."

I like your answer better of course :)

I'm very sorry and it's unfortunate to hear - they should have recommended for one of us to contact you.  Our Support people are well versed in helping our Dealers/End Users connect and install our products. 

It's good to know so that I can recommend that they forward these types of things directly to us in the future.  There's a difference explaining the intricacies of products to sell versus how to setup or install and is also why there are separate sales and support departments.  

Thank you again and please let me know if I can help you further.
Thanks,
Chris

I just realized that I misspoke about the Preamp being "fully balanced" and should have said "truly balanced". As Quoted directly from our FAQ Page at this link:

https://www.anthemav.com/support/faq.php

It says:

Are the XLR connections on the amps and preamps truly balanced?
Yes. All three pins of the XLR connection are part of the circuit, which means it’s a real balanced connection. (If pin 3 is sent to ground or left open, as is sometimes the case, then an XLR jack is an adapter, not a balanced input.) The purpose of balanced connection is cancelling out certain types of interference and ground loops.

What about the whole circuit from front to back - is it fully balanced?
No. At some point the signal must become single-ended, or interference can’t be cancelled. This is better done sooner rather than later in the signal chain. The purpose of a balanced stage within a circuit is cancelling out nonlinearities arising in the circuit itself, and/or to double the signal level while cancelling out some noise. This is purely a means, not an end. We use a balanced arrangement in specific areas within a circuit where it makes a meaningful difference. Doing this to an entire piece of equipment for the sake of using the catch phrase "fully balanced" may achieve nothing but a significant increase in cost, or worse if the two halves of the circuit aren’t matched well.

Thanks, Either way, it appears the preamp is a much better or higher end piece of equipment basically.  Therefore, I should see sonic differences over using the Integrated's preamp correct?

Hi @cbrents73 - I'm curious if you have a line up refresh coming up, and/or major feature upgrades in the works ? Especially in your HT line.

Thanks,

Erik

dtximages = you are correct!

Hi erik - obviously, as a manufacturer, we are always working on future and next gen product, but due to this virus, we’ve had many things put on hold. I have to assume once we achieve some kind of normalcy, whatever that’s going to look like, we’ll resume with our R&D. HDMI 2.1 has also been a major hold up in development and all the major Receiver companies along with us and few other higher end brands who will have access to those new chipsets, have all been waiting for the standards to get approved.

I posted a thread in the Tech Talk forum here about HDMI 2.1 that have some good links to some brief YouTube videos from Metra with Jeff Boccaccio from DPL Labs who works on certifying HDMI Cables and Standards:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/hdmi-2-1-8k-great-explanation-of-where-things-are-right-now

Even If I had a solid timeline Erik, I wouldn’t be at liberty to comment - especially in an open forum such as this about any new products, so I hope you can appreciate and understand that. Typically, once our products are ready to launch, that’s when they get announced.

Some CE Industry Trade Publications that are good to follow where you can keep up with what manufacturers have going on are:
CEPro
Residential Systems
TWICE
Dealerscope

These publications report on more mainstream products - like when AudioQuest acquired Golden Ear Speakers - most of these publications were first to report that acquisition.

Thanks,
Chris

I was pointed to this thread while asking the same question but I have another;

I've ordered the Anthem STR Preamp and I have searched but not found if the STR Preamp supports iPod/iPhone playback or not. One feature I take advantage of with my Oppo HA-1 Headphone Amp/Preamp is iPod/iPhone support via USB.

Made for iPod®, iPhone® and iPad®
The HA-1 passes Apple's "MFi" certification and is compatible with the latest iPod, iPhone and iPad to be used as the digital audio output accessory of these devices. By tapping directly into the digital audio signal of these devices and converting the audio to analog using the high performance SABRE 32 Reference DAC, music from your favorite portable device will sound its best.

https://www.oppodigital.com/headphone-amplifier-ha-1/

I have all my CD's saved as Apple Lossless in iTunes and just plugging my apple device allows me to use the HA-1 DAC and bypass the iPhone or iPod DAC. Does the STR Preamp support this? I understand I would need an iPhone lightning to USB-B male or A to B adapter. The Oppo HA-1 works direct, if the Anthem doesn't work with a direct connection, would it work with an Apple CCK Lightning to USB Camera Adapter?

If not, or even if it does, how about using a USB stick with FLAC? Would this allow playlists, albums, etc? I am a bit surprised there isn't a Type A USB connection on the front.

@george_r

It does have a USB input if that's what you're looking for. But it does not support streaming airplay.  Not sure if this is the response you're looking for.

@dtximages
I understand it has a USB input but does it accept a direct digital feed as a music source from an iPod/iPhone/iPad that bypasses the i device DAC and uses the STR DAC? Not all do but some that don't support the direct connection will work with the Apple CCK Lightning to USB Camera Adapter. 

I'm not concerned with streaming airplay.

Thanks

@george_r  Gotcha, I'm not sure.  I don't see why it wouldn't but there are many more knowledgeable than I.  I do know that if you connect via USB then you're using the Anthem's DAC so there's no need for an "i device" dac.

I agree, it should, I hope it does, but I can't be the first person to want to connect an iPhone/iPod/iPad. Odd getting a clear answer has been a challenge. I guess I'll know when I get my STR preamp in a week or so.

I just don't want to have multiple DA/AD/DA conversions.

Thanks.

I think the consensus would be that streaming anything straight from your iphone would be considered an inferior source in the first place.  If you can afford an Anthem STR product, why wouldn't you get a dedicated streamer like the Bluesound Node 2i or something?  

@dtximages, I have no interest in streaming?  I want a direct digital connection  via lightning to USB to the STR DAC.

Regards

Are you asking me a question?  You want a direct connection from your iPhone to your Anthem STR?

Op, did you ever end up making the switch? I'm sort of in a similar dilemma and I would love to hear if you noticed any sonic differences after you made the switch. 

Best,

Ming

@macming  I did make the switch. I am very happy with the STR preamp! Especially with the PS Audio M700 amps.  These are not in my trade/sell rotation.  I go through a lot of gear and I don't tell people locally I have these because i dont want to give them up.

That said, I cannot honestly say that I actually HEAR a difference in the pre/dac section.  Anthem claims they use much better parts etc and maybe they do, but how audible is that?  I wouldn't say "night and day" and you won't hear any difference if you're using a bad source, have a poor room, or speakers that aren't up to par.

So, I THINK I have improvement yes..  Some systems might show it more. But, the integrated amp is stunningly good for an integrated.