The minority? Doubtful. They just don't feel the need to get on the internet every chance they can get and bash vinyl .... they are too busy enjoying music .... and life.
Another Analog v. Digital Thread? Not Really
I’ll try to keep this as short as possible. The premise is this: If the highest compliment that can be given to digital is that it sounds analog, why bother with digital? I would never have posted this question, but the other week something happened. After owning my Oppo 205 for about a year and a half, I decided to sell it given the fact I wasn’t that crazy about it and the selling prices were quite good, although I posted mine for significantly less than many others are asking. BTW - In the last month I owned the Oppo, I found it tremendously improved by placing a Vibrapod 3 under each foot.
So a nice young man comes by for an audition and he likes the Oppo very much and purchases it. He is into 4k and all that stuff, but also wants some better audio quality. So that’s that.
Before he leaves, he asks to hear a vinyl record played on my Basis turntable. It’s a nice table - 2001 with Vector arm and Transfiguration Orpheus. I would rate it as the low end of the high end. Well the guy’s jaw just dropped. After sitting for an hour listening to the Oppo, he says that everything is so much more "alive" was the word he used and he couldn’t get his mind around the fact that he was listening to the exact same system with everything the same except the source.
I was considering replacing the Oppo with something like a Cambridge transport and Orchid dac because I have to play my CDs, right? But then I starting thinking why I had to play CDs anymore at all. It’s not so crazy when you think about it. Many of us gave up vinyl when CDs started getting decent, so what’s so strange about going back in the other direction?
So I asked myself - if analog is so much better, why would I even bother listening to CDs anymore?
Convenience? Well, sure, but I don’t really consider putting on a record very inconvenient, so that’s not really it.
Many titles on CD that are not on vinyl? I think that argument may be largely dissipated nowdays. It seems that virtually anything I would remotely want to listen to is available on vinyl, either new or used. You have thousands of CDs? OK, but if they don’t sound as good as a record, why would you want to listen to them just because you have them. I know it seems like a waste, but it happens sometimes.
Let me just finish with this, so there’s no confusion. If you have some insane high-end digital rig that you believe outdoes analog, this is not directed to you. But, for anyone who believes the best compliment you can give to digital is that it sounds analog, why bother? Also, to you streamers out there, the freedom from having a large quantity of physical media in your home is definitely a good argument. We all collect too much stuff and it’s nice to get rid of some.
Hopefully, this will be taken in the spirit it’s given, but I doubt it.
Merry Christmas, really.
So a nice young man comes by for an audition and he likes the Oppo very much and purchases it. He is into 4k and all that stuff, but also wants some better audio quality. So that’s that.
Before he leaves, he asks to hear a vinyl record played on my Basis turntable. It’s a nice table - 2001 with Vector arm and Transfiguration Orpheus. I would rate it as the low end of the high end. Well the guy’s jaw just dropped. After sitting for an hour listening to the Oppo, he says that everything is so much more "alive" was the word he used and he couldn’t get his mind around the fact that he was listening to the exact same system with everything the same except the source.
I was considering replacing the Oppo with something like a Cambridge transport and Orchid dac because I have to play my CDs, right? But then I starting thinking why I had to play CDs anymore at all. It’s not so crazy when you think about it. Many of us gave up vinyl when CDs started getting decent, so what’s so strange about going back in the other direction?
So I asked myself - if analog is so much better, why would I even bother listening to CDs anymore?
Convenience? Well, sure, but I don’t really consider putting on a record very inconvenient, so that’s not really it.
Many titles on CD that are not on vinyl? I think that argument may be largely dissipated nowdays. It seems that virtually anything I would remotely want to listen to is available on vinyl, either new or used. You have thousands of CDs? OK, but if they don’t sound as good as a record, why would you want to listen to them just because you have them. I know it seems like a waste, but it happens sometimes.
Let me just finish with this, so there’s no confusion. If you have some insane high-end digital rig that you believe outdoes analog, this is not directed to you. But, for anyone who believes the best compliment you can give to digital is that it sounds analog, why bother? Also, to you streamers out there, the freedom from having a large quantity of physical media in your home is definitely a good argument. We all collect too much stuff and it’s nice to get rid of some.
Hopefully, this will be taken in the spirit it’s given, but I doubt it.
Merry Christmas, really.
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Plus my friends there is another level to the digital system that HEA has not discovered. http://tuneland.forumotion.com/t509-my-low-mass-tunable-setup#9074 |
I don't have a turntable any more so I can't really comment on the comparison. But in the past few years of having access to good quality content through streaming, I have discovered more music I love than in the previous 40 years as an audiophile. I couldn't imagine giving that up at this point. I love finding more music, and while I certainly have my favorites that I go back to often, I love discovering new artists, and even new genres that I never paid attention to in the past. Since I am close to retiring, I am also watching my hifi budget much more than I have in years past, so the idea of splitting my more-limited budget between digital and analog doesn't make sense to me. If I'm going to spend $3K, $5K, or $10K more on my audio system, I'd rather spend it on upgrading my digital front-end (or other components) instead of adding a decent quality turntable, tonearm, cartridge and phono stage. And that's before investing in any actual music, which is what it's all about. |
Putting aside mastering, I think well tuned digital surpasses analog above about $6k. Hi-rez is really exceptional, but even SoX upsampling from 16/44 is quite good now. Everything matters, and you have to pay a lot of attention to source PC, program, OS tuning, noise, power supplies, tweaks, etc but spinning disks are legacy tech now IMO. The bit about "good digital sounds like analog so why bother" is missing what's happening. As digital improves, it loses that harshness, glare and eventually becomes liquid and then tonally rich. So that trend is towards analog, but it retains all the benefits of digital too, low distortion, no surface noise, RIAA, wear, and physical limitations and resonances. I’m very happy with a few years old Bel Canto stack RefLink, DAC3.5mk2, VBL, and looking forward to my next upgrade, probably the Black DAC-Pre with MQA and fed by an Ether-Regen. Agree with Jaytor, sold my TT and records in ’95 haven’t looked back, but it did take 20 years longer than I expected for digital to really excel. It’s still climbing faster in price/performance than analog too. |
All other things being equal, in my experience a good turntable/cartridge/Phono preamp combination still beats the crap out a good DAC or a CD (even when the digital unit is tuned and tweaked to sound as warm and analog as possible). Good digital will beat middling or mediocre analog but it will not beat out a out a good analog rig. If vinyl noise is an issue I would suggest you try a Sugarcube by a company called SweetVinyl. This component removes the the ticks and pops inaudibly-- and even though yes, it does this digitally (in the time domain), the AD-DA conversion is studio quality and in virtually all cases you will be unable to hear this device in your chain whether it's engaged or bypassed (they use hard relays for bypass so the audio passes through none of their circuitry). This is my opinion, but I do have a fairly high resolution system that picks up minute detail. I use it for noisy records only, usually it's in bypass mode. They have models that also rip your vinyl, split the tracks, and allow you to easily add the metadata just by entering the LP's catalog number. Best of both worlds. |
For $20k total budget for speakers, amp/pre, digital (let’s say just streamer and dac, not cd) and analog (tt/cart/phonostage), how much would you spend on each to get best synchrony ? Leave cables and room treatment out for now. Would this make sense? Speakers 8k amp/pre 5k digital 3k analog 4K. Or would you tweak the above? |
I am not giving up any of my CDs, SACD,s DVD-As; etc. just as I never gave up any of my vinyl!!!!! I paid good money for all that stuff and almost all of it has given me a tremendous amount of enjoyment and still does. When I’m playing a LP I don’t ask myself if it sounds analog. When I’m playing a disc or FLAC file, it doesn’t occur to me to ask myself if it sounds analog, either. I just play what sounds good to me and enjoy it. I have examples of every media that are wonderful and a few that are absolute duds. But if a song or songs that are memorable for me are only available on dud recordings; I won’t deny myself the pleasure. I have also bought digital recordings of albums I have that sound better to me than the vinyl....although that is because I’ve worn out the vinyl in a few instances. |
For one, there was the whole "progress" thing. When CD came along, the selling slogan was "Perfect sound forever". And eveeryone discovered that the sound was far from perfect, so far from it. But then the high-end marketers came along and pro reviewers who all wanted to push the new format because ... we live in capitalism. Analog had achieved, as it turned out in retrospect, perfection, hence no where else to go with that. And there seemed to be a carrot on a stick aspect, that each new product was touted as the solution to digital nastiness. Anyway for me, analog always sounded quite good even with a very modest ’table. But it’s just that LPs were finicky, getting scratched or having pops, etc etc. so in the end CD seemed more convenient. Now LP and turntables are making a comeback of course which is really understandable -- analog was never worse, and it was never surpassed by digital, certainly not for most people who can’t afford to spend 20k for their stereo system. |
The best of both worlds is to down-load your vinyl to hard drive; that way you can hear your records in any order you choose from the convenience of your listening chair. There is not one iota of anything lost in my rig as a result of down-loading vinyl to hard-drive. There are many others who are getting the same results. Anyone who's not getting proper results is not doing something right. |
I hope this answers your question https://benchmarkmedia.com/products/benchmark-adc1-usb-audio-converter |
"No serious music lover is going to choose one format over another. I have lots of LP’s that have yet to be released on CD, and lots of albums that are still available only on CD. You think I’m going to let the available format of any given recorded music determine if I will obtain and listen to it?! Superior sound quality is a bonus, not the point. Some of my favorite music is available only in far-from-great recorded sound quality. Toscanini’s Beethoven Symphonies, Glenn Gould’s everything, Hank Williams’---the Hillbilly Shakespeare---songs of longing, Howlin’ Wolf’s primal screams, Little Richard’s and Johnny Burnette’s insanely great Rock ’n Roll masterpieces, Louis Jordan’s Jump Swing band, the list is very long. You listen to your great sound, I’ll listen to my great music." Could not agree more. |