If you want music and not audiophile BS, then I would put the Legacy Focus 20/20 high on your list! |
The Legacy Focus 20/20 are a joke and not even worthy of being called high end. Their bass response being anything but flat is really bloated, and overall they are a very unimpressive speaker. Look somewhere else.
Check out Sean's thread. It has something to do with the trend in modern kilobuck speakers (I think).
I would suggest the Kharma Ceramique 1.0, the B&W Signature 30's or the Sony SS-M9ED. The Legacy's do not deserve to be on the same list as these.
I don't know anything about the Andra II so I will not comment. Don't loose heart. There are lots of good speakers out there.
What did you not like about the Watt/Puppy 7's? |
Since you are obviously considering spending the big bucks, here are two more speakers to consider.
Revel Salon, would be my second choice, at around $12K new and $10K used. Great build quality, very accurate, very great bass response, and very good imaging and soundstaging. However, if you don't like the WP 7, you probably won't like the Salons, as I think they are somewhat similar, so....
My first choice, although it is more expensive, is the Avalon Eidolon, at around $22K new/$12K used. The bass is ever so slightly rolled off, but the imaging and soundstaging are incredible. Assuming you have first class electronics, it is tough to beat the Eidolon, IMHO.
The Eidolon diamonds are about $10K more than the regular Eidolons, and supposedly sound even better, but since the regular Eidolon sound so good, save the money for better electronics!)
FYI, I have no axe to grind here, as I own the Revel Studio, similar to the Salon, but slightly smaller. (The Studio is very good speaker at a bargin price. Again, my opinion.) However, a friend has the Eidolons, and they are a step above my Studios, (although they should be for twice the price). If I could have afforded both the speakers and the subsequent electronics upgrade, I would have bought the Eidolons.
(I keep mentioning the electronics, because the Eidolon speakers are very revealing, and nothing but the best works well with this speakers. Plus they like lots of power, although, so do the Salons and Studios.)
My two cents worth anyway. |
" Will be driving the new speakers with Pass X600's. Prefer a big open soundstage sound versus strict adherence to accuracy and detail " Why dont you address what the poster wants and not have your own agenda . The Legacy Focus 20/20 would be a great choice. Dont listen to these Nimnods. With the money you save you can look into upgrading another part of your stream. Too many of these yo yo's base their opinions on a selected demo , not realizing you can make most high end speakers sound like crap or breathtaking depending upon whats driving them in the signal chain. Ive heard B&W 800's sound like crap. Are they crap ? Of course not. The indivudual doing the demo had them severely underpowered. |
I own the Andra II's and think they're extraordinary. I did a review of them on Audiogon about a year ago. As to the other speakers mentioned above, the Eidolons are superb, but have to go a long way (say 6 feet) from the wall behind them, and the Revels are in the same league. Never heard a pair of Wilson speakers I liked (with the possible exception of the Sophias)--too hifi. And you might add in the Dali 5's(?)--I heard them at a dealer when listening to another component and they made everything sound smooth and musical. Hope that helps. |
Nrchy don't hold back now. |
I know someone who A/B Andra original and Wilson watt
puppy, I am not sure if its the seven,He bought the Andra.
Acoording to Him no contest,He was using Mark Levinson
gear, Wadia that time. |
Legacy is not near high end,just a mailorder joint.Behind that polished rosewood are the ghosts of bose and Polk.
Stay away! |
Transporter, I based my comments on the Legacy Focus 20/20 on what I heard and on the measurements. The bass response is bloated! A well designed speaker should measure flat in an ancholic chamber. Thess do not, and never will. The only place the bass will ever be flat is in a poorly designed room. If you think a speaker designed with this obvious flaw is a great speaker than go buy a pair, but there a very few people concerned with good sounding music that are willing to accept a speaker that is designed with bloated bass, unless you want to listen to a lot of rap.
I heard these speakers with some good MacIntosh electronics and based on what I heard would not consider them for a serious listen. I am 43 years old and have sat in on more than my fair share of listening sessions. I know what to listen for, and what issues are going to cause problems for doing serious listening. The issue was not the room or the gear. The issue was the speakers.
Some goofball in Stereophile can say they are the best speaker ever made, but that will not change my opinion.
I have no interest in this company, I'm not an investor in one of the other companies. I don't sell stereo equipment. I'm just trying to pass on some helpful advice.
hotdownhere, in regard to the Revel Salons mentioned earlier, they are another great option. I listened to them in a shop with Levinson gear, and they had the most "liquid" midrange I have ever heard!!! They were nothing short of stunning. I cannot imagine what they would sound like in a good room with better electronics. The Cremona's are also a good choice in the price range you are looking.
I will just mention again (and you are perfectly welcome to discount everything I have said) there are many good to great speakers in the price range you are looking but the Legacy Focus 20/20 does not deserve to be in that catagory. Don't believe me, go out and listen. They have been a mail order (I wonder why!?!) company for years, but several midfi shops have picked them up recently. |
If the reveiwers at Stereophile are "goofballs" then why would you give credence to their measurements? Also, regardless of how a speaker measures in an anechoic chamber the real test of a proper design is whether the speaker sounds flat in an appropriate room at the intended listening position. |
I have Legacy Signature III's . They sound especially good if Im playing my free CD from Ridge Street Audio ! |
If the original post said I am looking for the most accurate measured speakers in the world , and someone replied Legacy, and you said that would be a joke, than your point would have validity. But once again the original poster states "Prefer a big open soundstage sound versus strict adherence to accuracy and detail". To call a speaker that is well reviewed and enjoyed by many a joke , is to insult the many in the community that enjoy them . And if all we had to do was "measure electronics" we would never even have to demo them, we could just buy everything sound unheard. If they are not your cup of tea, thats fine. Again, we have to refer to the original post. This boy wants to Rock. He doesnt want no sissy girl speakers. |
Transporter you are right, he did say he wants a big open soundstage, so maybe the Legacy's are a good match for him. There are also a lot of other speakers with a big open soundstage that are not as compromised as the Legacy. If he wants to buy the Legacy speakers he should buy them, but he can still do better.
Onhwy61, if you have read anything I have written on AudiogoN then you know I am not a 'measurement over everything else' person. I am much more willing to accept JA's measurements (since the measurement process is well defined and understood) than someone elses opinion about the sound of a product.
Measurements are limited by the understanding of science as to what is taking place in many key areas, but the ability to measure frequency response is actually quite simple. The Legacy Focus 20/20 is not flat where it should be flat! If that doesn't bother you buy it and enjoy it! |
Actually I own Martin Logans and I love them. But a friend of mine owns the Legacy Focus 20/20 , I have heard many of his jazz and blues recordings and kick drums sounded like kick drums, The midrange sounded excellent {although I felt B&W was a little wider} and the highs were quite nice. Actually this has nothing to do with you or Legacy , But when it comes to speakers , there are probably 20 to 30 manufacturers I could live happily ever after with, but when it comes to front end , pre amplifiers, and Power Amplifiers , the only ones I would consider , I could count with one hand. I just beieve in general people think backwards. It all starts at the front end. The optimum sound potential of most speaker owners is never realized because they spend too much on their speakers and too little on the rest of thier equipment. Just my opinion. |
The Transporter may have a point. Who is this mystery man ? |
Transporter is correct, you should build the best front end possible to realize better end results (speakers)
As far as speakers go, I like the Andra II's, a friend of mine has them powered with a Krell KSA-250 and Levinson 31.5 trans and 30.5 dac, sounds awsome. My other speaker choice besides the Andra's are the Avalon Ascent Mk 2's. |
I think you should (i) describe your other components and your room, (ii) your musical preferences, and (iii) open yourself up to other possibilities.
All three speakers you mention could sound great in the right setting. Just as could the Kharmas, the Thiel 7.2, the Dynaudio C4, the Audio Physic Avanti III, the latest large ProAc's, the Meadowlark Blue Heron II's, the Verity Parsifal Encore, Martin Logan Prodigy's, the Joseph Pearl, the Aerial 20-T, and probably fifteen other speakers between 10K and 25K. I own Revel Salons and Vienna Acoustics Mahlers, and both can satisfy discriminating listeners depending upon what front-end electronics they are partnered with.
Your Pass amp is very neutral and extended, and you may, as a result, want to be wary of bright-ish speakers (depending also, of course, upon the unknowns of the rest of your system/room). There are a number of speakers that are voiced in the direction you specify that may or may not sound as intended depending upon speaker cable choice, front-end components, freedom (or inability) to fool around with speaker placement, ...
What I am saying is that there is a lot more to the puzzle (and more than one puzzle), and you could help us to help you by providing more information.
Good luck |
