2. amps-preamps
  3. 1018837399

Amp shootout.....Tenor 75wi verses Berning ZH270

in a recent thread there was much discusion of the above 2 amps, whether the Berning was indeed an OTL, and which one might be better.

i have no opinion as to whether the Berning is an OTL. but today a Berning ZH270 owner brought his amp over to compare to my pair of Tenor 75wi's. my system is OTL friendly, with easy to drive speakers, so the Berning's acknowledged advantage in driving difficult loads was neutralized.

these amps have very similar power, the Tenor is 75 watts into 8 ohms, the Berning is 70 watts into 8 ohms. otherwise it is not really a fair comparison....the Tenors are $19900 a pair, the Berning $4500, the Tenors weigh 70 pounds each, the Berning weighs about 10 pounds.....it seems like Goliath verses David. the result is somewhat closer than that.

we played three different discs and each of 3 people listened to their disc in the sweetspot. the Berning owner felt that the Tenor had a more dimentional sound, deeper soundstage but felt the Berning was equal in bass extension and detail retreival. the independent listener felt the Berning was excellent for the money but not in the league of the Tenor in any paramter. my perception was similar to the independent listner; that the Berning, at $4500, is amazing in it's top to bottom excellence, dynamics and musicality.....but....does not do things like the Tenor. the sense of space, detail in the soundstage, texture and microdynamics of the Tenor are at a whole different level.....and they better be for $15000 more.

like the Berning owners, i am a shameless Tenor lover and consider the Tenors better than any other amp i have heard at any price, assuming a reasonably easy load to drive.

the Berning is more like a $8k to $10k amplifier.....and Berning owners should be justifiably proud of their amps.

i did think the Berning had slightly more bass slam than the Tenor, but with much less bass articulation and extension than the Tenor.

we spent the rest of the enjoyable afternoon listening to some great vinyl......an enjoyable time had by all.
mikelavigne
georgia2k
27 posts
 
Alan,

Please "tease" us with a few details about the prototype Berning monoblock.
e.g. how many watts, type of output tube, etc.
gbeard
29 posts
 
Hi All,

I am a very satisfied Berning ZH270 owner. I have changed my tubes to the same set that Kris has, and yes they have made a very significant difference. That said, I am sure the Tenor's sound is a thing of beauty, and I can only wish for a system like Mike's!

David had told me about this shoot out prior to it taking place, and I was very impressed that anyone could even believe the two amps belonged in the same comparision. I have not heard the Tenor's, but they seem to be universally praised.

I can say without hesitation that my ZH is absolutely wonderful. I have had two great amps in my system (the McCormack DNA .05 Deluxe Rev. A, followed by a VAC Ren. 30/30 Mk II) prior to the Berning, but I am so satisfied with the sound of the ZH that I am now looking elsewhere for improvement. Granted my system is modest by comparision to Mike's, but again it is nice to know that we Berning owners are at least in the same ballpark.

Thanks to David and Mike for the interesting thread!

Cheers, Gary
kevinkwann271f
2 posts
 
A frien mine who owns the Tenor amps brought them over to Kwann to compare to my Lamm ML1's. After about hour of warm up, we played three discs on my amp. Then we switche to Tenors and played disc in reverse order.

First disc, I just ben over start to laugh. I couldn't help it, but it no close.

My poor frien spen almost 15 grand for his Tenors and all he could do was look up at me with face red. What happene to bass? Where did go?

Midrange-trebles ok on Tenor. It soun nice but no has resolution and refine of ML1.

The Tenor ver nice polite soun amplifier with something that soun like bass, but no really bass. Call Kwann crazy but for 15 grand I no like kick drum soun like somebody punch pillow. My frien had me sell Tenors for his on Audioweb.
twl
3,251 posts
 
The feedback switch does more than just change the amount of feedback. It also changes the output impedance of the amplifier, which can have dramatic effect on the amp's ability to drive certain loads. In the Normal Feedback mode, it has 1.8ohms output impedance which should give best damping, but in the Low Feedback mode, it has about 8ohms output impedance, which would only be good for higher impedance speakers(16ohms). What kind of speakers were used and what load do they present? The setting used may or may not have been the correct one.
twl
3,251 posts
 
After checking the Kharma website, the Exquisite 1D has a 4ohm to 8ohm load, so the Normal Feedback setting on the Berning ZH270 was the correct setting for them.
More to discover