AMG V12

My 2011 AMG E63 was a gas pig and had a very uncomfortable ride. Never again, back to a regular E class.

I don't know anything about the AMG TT.

It probably doesn't matter to you given the cost of the car, but German cars aren't made as well as they used to be. They are so overly complicated, it becomes a costly nightmare just to keep them on the road. Once you put a few thousand miles on them, there's always something. Every time you shut the MIL off, it comes back on for something else.

Wrong forum, LOL!

Okay, let's try this again.

I am interested in learning of people's experiences of the turntable "record player" called AMG VIELLA 12 or otherwise known as the AMG V12.

I can't imagine that no one has had this turntable. Maybe they are all too busy enjoying their music to have time to visit the forums?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I guess you may wish to change your moniker to "some_regrets", given the facetious responses.
Here is my take on your actual question: If the AMG tt still is being manufactured, and if the local distributor still honors the warranty, then I would not hesitate to go ahead with purchase. It is unlikely that the late designer of the table was hand-building them in the first place. Most likely, he either out-sourced the build or formed his own company to do so. Information on the viability of the latter should be available in the public domain. Moreover, it's a simple beast and unlikely ever to "break". You may in fact end up with a collector's item that will hold value better than most.
Lew

Thanks Lewm for taking the time to respond to my questions regarding the AMG turntable.

It appears as though the designer's son (who has been working by his side over the years) has taken over the business. I will contact Musical Surroundings, the US distributor, this week to see what their take on the situation is as well.

I was able to find a dealer that is an 8 hour roundtrip car ride from where I live, so will try to find the time to make the drive and give a listen to. This winter season has been a bear though with dangerously cold weather and snow/ice covered roadways. It might be awhile before I can safely make the trip.

I would still love to hear from anyone who might have some experience with this table. The reviews look positive, but I prefer hearing from my audiophile brothers and sisters if at all possible.

Thanks again

My experience is limited to listening at my dealer. My first impression left me wishing I could afford one. Although as an owner of an LP12 and the dealer is an avid LP12 guru, I would confess the fully tricked out LP12 does outperform the V12 in bass response as well as minute extraction of details, but at an additional $12k it should. My LP12 is well equipped and adjusted with a Kleos but the V12 with a Atlas still leaves a noticeable margin in improvement over mine. Not to mention I think they are just gorgeous to behold, and I really feel the 12" arm would bring some added benefit to playback, tracking etc.
A question Lewm raises that I am unaware of, is it still made? I have not heard nor read it wasn't but intend to ask the dealer when he returns. It would be a shame if it has either ceased to be produced or imported. In my opinion it is a wonderful table and it would be a shame to lose the access to this fine table.

Hi Theo,

Thank you for your reply. It's nice to meet another LP12 enthusiast! I had talked with Musical Surroundings last Friday to see if they knew if AMG would be represented at the 2014 Axpona Show in Chicago this coming April and he wasn't aware if it would be or not….however, he made no mention of AMG going out of business or discontinuing distributions to the States (although I did not ask directly about this.)

I will be making another call this coming week to find out what the current status is though.

Thank you Theo for sharing your experience with me!

"Fully tricked out LP12". Are you referring to the Linn? Would a Linn with all the bells and whistles represent a net cost significantly less than that of an AMG. Off hand, and because I am decidedly not a Linnie, I would not think so.

I did see that they were at CES showing the V12, so my guess is they are still selling in the US market. As mentioned, I had never heard that before Lewm's comments and I may have misinterpreted him.
Lewm, surprise surprise! A fully decked out LP12 with on board phono stage can reach upwards of 30k. That was the table in the comparison, the V12 with options was about 17k so that was the basis for my comments.
No-regrets, I was curious by you comments about the LP12, is the the table you are using now? I hadn't thought about before but if my dream comes true I'll be going from a LP12 to a V12, let us know if you get one. I myself am miles away from that jump.

Hi Theo,

Yes, a fully "tricked out" LP12 is quite expensive now-a-days as they have finally come to learn about the changes in sound that can be had by changing the AC motor to DC, upgrading the motor controller and power supply, changing the top plate and sub chassis , etc etc that has been already done well over a couple decades ago by a firm called Pink Triangle in the form of the Pink Link (now known as the Funk Firm) as modifications to many LP12's.

Theo, to answer your question, my current table which I've had since the 1990's is a beautiful Linn LP12 wrapped in a Brazilian Rosewood plinth with the Pink Link modifications which consists of ditching the AC motor for a DC motor. Replacing the top plate, moving the motor to the lower left hand corner about the 7:30ish position so it's more in line with the front of the stylus instead of tugging at it broadside, and a includes a very large and sophisticated motor controller with 12 volt SLA DC Battery Power Supply.

These upgrades are responsible for making the music emerge from an utterly black background, both the micro and macro dynamics are scarily real and the pace and timing of the music greatly enhanced. It is incredible the difference in sound and now after all this time, Linn has finally accepted this and is offering these options in there "fully tricked out" tables… although at a significant cost , but it allows the LP12 to compete with the very best.

To round out my table, I am using the Naim ARO tone arm (which in my opinion is the very best "sounding" arm ever made for the LP12….the music sounds so balanced and natural via that arm… along with the Benz Ruby ZH which is brought up to the S-Class specs and is housed in a Zebra Wood body.

I'm not very technically adept with all things computers will try to attach a link to a photograph of my table. I apologize in advance if it does not work.

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad122/No_regrets1/Reference%20System%20March%202011/P1260162_zps9399e9a3.jpg

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad122/No_regrets1/P3250336_zps0d583a4a.jpg

I love the fact that Linn provides an upgrade path for the older LP12, but does the path have to be so steep in price. Thousands of Linn LP12 owners have stopped upgrading their table due to Linn’s current upgrade pricing.

The AMG brand is alive and well based on the fact that they have been demoed at more than one high end show in the past 4 months.

Hi Brf,

That is good to hear about the AMG still being alive and well! I hope that they will be represented this April in Chicago at the Axpona show. I love what I've read in their reviews and am hopeful to being able to hear them. I'm also interested in the Spiral Groove tables as well as the Clearaudio Innovation Wood, both of which will be at the Chicago Show…but I'm leaning heavily towards the AMG.

I agree with how you feel about the Linn upgrade path pricing. An affordable option though would to do your upgrading of the Linn LP12 via the Funk Firm's modifications. They are awesome! I believe that they will be in Chicago this April as well.

No-regrets, thanks for sharing the photos, are those Dunlaveys?? Very good looking system and table. I haven't gone that far with mine, I do have mine wrapped in a beautiful cherry with some birds-eye that I just love. But using the pre-SE Ekos, Cirkus, Lingo with the newest motor, Cardas Golden Ref cableing and a Kleos. I do enjoy the table but I suffer from audiophilia-unrest and always want something different.
But I am agreement with you and Brf. Enough is enough. Linns prices for the SE Ekos, Keel etc, are not an investment that will yield equal returns. I see the AMG and see simplicity, style and hear a table and tonearm that exceeds my current table and much less future maintenence. I'm all in and if the money falls in my direction, I will move in that direction.

Hi Theo,

Thank you for the kind words. I'm sure your Birdseye Maple looks very beautiful as well.

Oh, you were correct. Those are my Dunlavy SCIV Signatures. I've had them since the mid 90's and love them to death. I can't ever imagine getting rid of them.

I'm curious as you've actually been able to listen to the AMG, what is it about the AMGs sound that you prefer over that of your LP12?

No-regrets, first off I don't blame you for hanging on to the Dunlavys, I used to spend a lot of time listening at the dealers showroom. A sad day indeed when they closed their doors. My LP12 vs. the V12, first off I think the delicate nature of the Lyra house sound is more freely expressed. The vocals seemed to be more accurate in timbre, akin to a live acoustic natural sound. We listened to Patricia Barber, Dusty Springfield and Chris Issac mostly, and when I came home and played the same albums, I realized that the information had less depth than at the store. I do feel the bass is pretty much on par between the two, with the exception of the speakers capability to deliver. But the overall nature in sound of the V12, to me seemed to let me relax my ears more when listening for certain passages than I get with my table. That said, I must provide weight to the overall system at the dealers vs. mine. Speakers, phono stage, Atlas vs. Kleos, but I still contend the overall "audio picture" of the V12 defined the ceiling of limitations of my LP12 unless I tweak mine at great expense, or choose to invest in the future a vinyl playback. The other notes I want to add is I think the AMG bearing design is a major contributor but would raise concern on isolation. I believe it would be a crucial ingredient in obtaining the maximum performance. Also I think the 12" arm vs. the Ekos adds to the ease of tracking allowing the cartridge to more freely track the groove. All personal opinion of course.

Dear Theo, I confess I must have been confused by your words: "I would confess the fully tricked out LP12 does outperform the V12 in bass response as well as minute extraction of details, but at an additional $12k it should. My LP12 is well equipped and adjusted with a Kleos but the V12 with a Atlas still leaves a noticeable margin in improvement over mine."

Here you mention some specific ways in which the LP12 outperformed the V12, but you conclude, it seems, that the V12 (with the much more expensive Atlas cartridge compared to Kleos) outperformed the LP12, overall. And then somehow I got the message that the V12 was more expensive than the LP12, when the case is quite the opposite, as you now say. Sorry for my confusion on all levels.

Hi Theo,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, Mr. Dunlavy was quite a gentleman and is dearly missed.

I'm really looking forward to being able to hear the AMG V12. From everything I've read from others as well as from yourself, I think I might be in for a real treat.

So it sounds as though your biggest concern with the AMG is possibly it's lack of a suspension? Do you find it to be susceptible to foot falls, or maybe airborne vibrations from the music? What was your dealer using for isolation? I've got my LP12 up on a wall shelf as my music room has suspended hardwood floors that tended to wreak havoc on the LP12. Now, my wife and I can dance to the music and the stylus stays steady in the grooves…do you think this would be sufficient for the AMG?

Lewm, no concerns, I have a tendency to confuse people with my writing skills (or lack there of) It seems it makes sense while typing because I know what I trying to say. I truley appreciate your follow up comments.

No regrets, I may have mis stated my concerns. They are based on my paranoia from my LP12 ownership. Even though I have my floor reinforced under the cabinet and am using Aurios, my table skips with very little provication. A wall shelf would be the solution, but I keep putting it off for future plans that may never happen. As far as the V12, my dealer has it on an HRS stand and his floor, though second floor is rock solid and I never experienced any skipping in his showroom. With a a wall shelf just delete any comments I made concerning this issue. I am very confident that you and the misses will have many many dances with out skipping (records that is) you may skip around the room when you get your new AMG. :)

That sounds great Theo! Thanks so much for sharing your experiences with me!!!