I use them to biamp my Martin Logan Odysseys - I have tried taking them out of my system to try the new wire on the block but I keep putting them back and am now convinced and they are there to stay. I use the Tourmaline bigboy copper versions. |
Before i run my mouth, which Perreaux amp do you have ? I have owned ( still own ) several different Perreaux's and am quite familiar with their tonal balance. I also own several different models of Goertz speaker cables and have opinions on those too. Then again as everyone knows, i have an opinion on EVERYTHING : )
Shoot us some specifics as to the amp model, the lengths for each run and where that length is going, etc... The only reason i say this is that the Goertz MAY not be optimum for this combo, depending on the specific amp that you have. Sean
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Hi Sean..here are the specs...
The Perreaux is the 2150B (although I might want to upgrade((Krell-Rotel?????)) and it powers the bass columns. The speaker cables must go from the power amp directly to the servo crossover on the infinity. Then another pair of speakers returns from the crossover to the actual bass column. The mid/treble speakers get hooked to the amp directly. Steve at UsedCables suggested that this Gortz cable, used for the mid/treble, be of a higher quality. All the speaker runs are short...no longer then 5-6 feet.
I hope this helps!
Rick |
Here's a few observations based on my past experience. While i have not tried that specific combo of amps / speakers / cables, you might find it of some use.
The reason that i asked about which Perreaux amp is in use is as follows. The 2150's that i've had personal experience with were noticeably leaner than the 3150's and amps produced after that point. While i remembered the 2150's as having tremendous bass capabilities when they first came out, more recent exposure to them has somewhat altered that opinion. Since Goertz cables tend to sound somewhat warm and smooth, this might actually tend to help you out somewhat. If you had a 3150 or later series of Perreaux amp, i would have said that Goertz might give you too much of a good thing i.e. overpowering bottom end.
For the record, the only cables that i've ever found that REALLY altered the sound of the bigger and newer Perreaux's were YBA Diamond speaker cables. This produced a MUCH more open sound than i had ever heard these amps produce. At the same time, it also thinned out the bottom end. Other than the YBA's, i think that the Perreaux's are not very speaker cable sensitive and tend to be extremely consistent in terms of tonal balance / performance into various loads.
Having said that, i PERSONALLY prefer MI-2's over MI-3's in almost every aspect of performance. Never played with the AG series silver cables, but i've been told that they work best with "tubey" sounding tube amps. Probably restores some of the top end that seems to get eaten up with all of the "romantic warmth" that they tend to generate. I would not put ARC amps into the "warm and mushy" tube category though, so you might be better off with their copper cables.
My biggest concern with your situation is how to stabilize the woofer amp. I also recommend the use of an impedance compensation network ( zobel ) when using Goertz cables. As you probably know, using these with wide bandwidth amps can send the amp into oscillation. The zobels are typically placed in parallel across the speakers binding posts. Since you have two runs of cable ( one from amp to crossover, the other from crossover to speakers ), how would you work that out ? Would you need one at the input to the crossover and another at the speaker input terminals or just one at the crossover or just one at the speaker ? I would contact both Goertz and the Cable Company and compare the notes that you get from both sources. While Goertz may make the cables, i think that the Cable Company probably works closer with the end user. As such, they might have acquired a greater amount and more in-depth customer feedback.
If you are working with the Cable Company, you might want to see if you can pick up some Nordost cables also. I think that they are also good cables, but present the music from a slightly different perspective. As you know, cables are both system dependent and up to personal preference. If you don't like one, you'll probably like the other. I'd be interested to see where you end up on this specific journey though. Sean
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All of the above have merit. I would also suggest InnerSound cables/interconnects. Just put InnerSound in a search engine..and go to their site.
I have had most of the highest of the highend cables and interconnects,..the InnerSound ones are.....well...the Holy Grail. Something great at the price of something simple. |
Sean,
Thank you so much for the most thoughtful and comprehensive response...(and to the others as well)!
I am NOT a technical audiophile so your comments about the use of an impedance network.....boy, I began to get a cold sweat when I was reading that. However, I am working with the folks at UsedCable (I'll call them tomorrow) and pass along your information.....I will keep you (and all here) informend! Thanks again.....
Rick |
Rick,
I too have used Goertz cables, though not with Perreaux, and would second certain aspects of what Sean had to say (warmth & bass). On a different note, I believe that (in my system) the Goertz were overly warm and somewhat blurred in contrast to what I now use. This may be purely synergy related – but worth pointing out.
To contrast one of Sean’s comments I found the Goertz MI-2’s to have an edge or sibilant quality …nowhere near as smooth as the Silversmith speaker cables I now use. THAT blows my mind, because literally EVERYONE I spoke with insisted that silver would ‘brighten’ the sound and make it more edgy and un-listen-able. What a load of crrrrrrap! While this might not be the normal experience with Silver cables it’s mine. I might also add that when I first purchased the Goertz MI-2’s the speakers I was using were less than full range, so I really appreciated the bass that the Goertz produced. The speakers I now use (NHT 3.3’s) are decidedly more full range.
As a reference and contrast the Silversmith silver ribbons do not have the bass that the Goertz had, and at first blush - appeared to be lean. Time has demonstrated that while the overall perspective is one of less overall bass the Silversmiths actually go deeper than the Goertz did, but do everything with greater focus. I liken this experience to looking at an object through lenses… when out of focus an image appears larger – but it’s really blurred, when in-focus the image appears smaller, but what’s actually appearing is the objects true size and form.
I really loved my Goertz cables, and if it weren't for my current cabling I'd still be using them. MI-2 speaker wire, balanced and RCA Goertz Sapphire's (Excellent Silver IC's!). For great sound on a budget you could do a lot worse than Goertz.
Regards,
Mike |
I've owned RS-1B's (superb speaker, by the way...just too
big for my present room). I'm using Alpha-core Goertz
MI-2 speaker cables, and Tourmaline IC's to the power amp,
Goertz Sapphire in the system. I'm very pleased with the
Goertz cables, and have used MIT, Kimber and Monster in
previous systems. I think the Goertz are a tremendous value. |
I have have great experience with the larger diameter Goertz cables, such as Sapphire Interconnects and AG2 speaker cables. The smaller interconnects are precise but less bass. The interconnects have high capacitance so use short runs only. Not sure about the speaker cables. |
The Micropurl interconnects are not that high in capacitance even though the design looks somewhat similar to their speaker cable design. They took this into account when designing them. That is why they have the "extra" third conductor in them. The placement of this "dead" conductor increases inductance, bringing the cables much closer to what one would expect from "normal" interconnects. This also adds some versatility to these cables, as they can easily be converted from a two conductor RCA cable to a three conductor balanced cable.
Awdeeofyle, were you using impedance compensation networks with the Goertz when you ran them ? What you describe sounds like an amp on the edge of oscillation i.e. lack of clarity and focus. When an amp goes into oscillation, you see that type of "image" on a scope. While you can see the "correct" or "primary" image, it is floating in a haze of oscillation. It looks fuzzy, lacks detail and definition and is nowhere near as clean or pure as it should be. Once the oscillation is removed and stability restored to the circuit, the clarity and focus are back to what they should have been to begin with.
The reason that i said it sounded like your specific amp was on the edge of oscillation is that you would have smelled it cooking itself to death if it was in "hardcore" oscillation. The smell of "burnt electronics" is unmistakable. Due to differences in design and bandwidth, some amps are more stable than others. As such, some will self destruct while others will not flinch in the same exact situation.
The bottom line is system synergy and personal preference. Since we are the ones that have to live with and listen to our systems, we might as well make ourselves happy as best we can. Go with what you like, regardless of brand or cost. That is why i have several different brands of cables in several different systems. There is no one cable that is universally the "best" in my opinion. Sean
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