Airtangent vs Kuzma airline

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Albert,
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Off subject, but which did you prefer, the Graham 2.2 or Basis Vector and why ?
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Rgds,
Larry
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Tubes108,

I am using the Exprissimo The Lift to cue my arm at the end of the record. Very easy to setup & I love not getting up at the end of a record. You won't miss your cueing anymore on the airtangent.

I must admit Albert,I'm aware(for quite some time)you were never wild about your A/T arm.Yet having two friends who have owned it,the opinions were not as harsh as your memory of it.
They did go to rediculous lengths to source the kind of performance from it,that ultimately did satisfy them.

BTW-both of these hobbyists are absolutely obsessive about bass performance,and have very refined full range systems.The Mercury LP series was written for TAS based on observations stemming from one of these set-ups which had an Air Tangent.I have heard this particular system regularly for ten years,with the A/T arm,and fifteen years before that with different stuff.There is no way the bass was anything less than stellar in that room,with that arm.
You know I don't mean any disrespect,and know you are a dedicated and knowledgeable hobbyist,but like your experience with a 2.2 which could not stay in "setting"(my friend's earlier one has this same problem),the possibility does exist for there to be other variables at play,which may not have allowed you to get the most from your Air Tangent.The arm as I have heard it on so many occassions had superb,pitch perfect,and deep bass.Believe me when I tell you that my friend would never have settled for less.To this day,he is one of the most "well respected" (and bass obsessed) music lovers this hobby has seen.For me to consider the notion that a product like the Air Tangent would quarterback his system,for so long,with the kind of bass weakness/coloration you have mentioned in past threads is incredulous.
I do admit that he was privy to other hobbyists having the same arm,at the same time he owned his.Perhaps he was able to gain some insight that a solo owner could not.I'm just guessing here.No disrespect,again.
The stock compresor/pump was replaced by a very high quality(and expensive)unit,at the behest of another dedicated hobbyist,who had tried it.It DID make a significant impact on the bass performance.I heard it both ways,and my observations are based on this higher quality,higher pressure unit!
It was better than the 2.2,which I like(as I'm sure you know).Yet the 2.2 cannot match this particular iteration of A/T arm in the area of perceived tonality,body,and lack of "tracking personality".For sure,IMO!To me,it makes a large difference in my own experience,as to how I want a system to allow for that certain "presentation".
The Air Tangent allows a cartridge to really "present" itself,and stand out,away from what an arm should NOT be doing!

Sorry for the rant,and I have no doubts the Walker is damn good.I've heard that table/arm combo in super sounding systems,but I have a TON of listening under my belt with the Air Tangent,with a load of LP's I'm lucky to own.So maybe I'm a bit jaded,but you can forgive me for that.I hope!!

Best Regards!!

Rum,

In the very near future I will be able to tell you precisely how the big Kuzma turntable with air bearing arm sounds. We will be comparing it to a Walker Proscenium with Walker air bearing arm.

The cartridge of choice for the test, a Koetsu Jade Platinum, will be moved from one arm to the other and carefully adjusted and set up by me.

The music I hear from Kuzma rigs at audio shows is great, but it's impossible for me to separate exactly what the arm is contributing. It would be difficult if I could luck into a demo with two competitive arms, identical turntables, matched cartridges, identical tonearm wire, proper loading values for the cartridge, exact gain matching during the audition and equal quality set up on both tables and arms :^).

All that being said, my instincts say the Kuzma is a world class rig. I have more confidence in it than the Continuum Audio Labs that's all the buzz.

Kha, the Graham had better bass than the Air Tangent in my system. The Air Tangent was mounted on a Basis Debut Gold MK IV. Later that same table was fitted with two Graham arms and had previously had other pivot arms (but not the ET on that table).

The Kuzma is likely equal to the Graham in bass, assuming it's anywhere near the Walker. The Walker arm has the best bass I have ever gotten but it's difficult to know how much is package integration, how much is TT design and how much is due to the arm :^).

When I hear the Kuzma I will absolutely know how it fares against the Walker and by deduction and previous experience might venture a "guesstimate" as to where it is against the other arms I mentioned.

Albert

I am about to put down the money for a Kuzma XL turntable with Kuzma airline arm. Have you had a cahnce to listen to this combination? wht did yiu think ?

Rum

I would go for the Airline as it is a really a
good Linear Tracking Arm, without any problems in
handly and setup.
As Albertporter say´s the Graham does give a bit
more bass than the Airline. But the Airline is
much more precise.
If you can afford it or your table does mount two
arm's go for the Graham and for the Kuzma Airline.

I've owned the Versa Dynamics with it's air bearing linear track arm, two ET air bearing linear track arms (upgraded pumps), a Triplanar, 2 Graham's, an Air Tangent 10B, two Breuer Dynamic and multiple popular pivot arms such as the Decca, Dynavector, Thorens, SME, Ortofon, and a dozen others.

The Air Tangent was a total disappointment for me, in spite of trying it with a Dynavector cartridge, two Benz Ruby cartridges and a Koetsu Rosewood Platinum. In my opinion, the Graham beats it and so does the Basis Vector, particularly in the bass and dynamics region.

The Kuzma is likely in the same class with the Walker arm and certainly above the Air Tangent. If you can wait a few weeks, we have a Kuzma arm and turntable (very top of the line) coming to a guy in my music group. We plan on comparing it to a Basis Debut Gold with Graham 2.2 and against the Walker Proscenium.

Sorry you could not find the sweetspot with your A/T Tubes 108!Maybe it was the standard pump,which was a design weakness(compared to the "dentist special"),as I found out.

I would venture an educated guess that the Kuzma would be every bit as good,if not better,based on what I have read,and heard,in some corners!

My friend had a VPI TNT(custom modded),which sat on a vibraplane air suspension.It then was mounted atop a 300 lb stand.DAMN good,and no longer as magical.Sadly!!

BTW-though you can never convince me that the fine Vector can match a fully tricked out A/T,I do admit to understanding,and also using a simple unipivot myself.I sport the superb,yet imperfect Graham 2.2!I think I'm in love with the "maddening" endless voicing possibilities this arm allows me to experience.

Best regards!!

Thanks for the great feedback. Keep it coming.
I have found the site that sell's the Airtangent. E-mailed http://www.dnaudio.com for a number of questions but has not yet responded. The Kuzma rep has responded to all of my queries and all with in 12 hrs. To me this is a BIG bonus.
The Airtangent seems to be very popular but if I cannot get a hold of the person that sells it then.......
Sir Speedy, you seem to very impressed to say the least with the Airtangent. What table was your friend using? I think that all good things come to those that work. Maybe this will be true for the tonearm as well. If I should get tired of all the work then I will play digital. But after listening to Mike Lavigne's analog set up I would say that the work will definitely be worth it.
BTW nice lambo. Did you buy your Airtangent from the same person?
Thanks for the help guys.

Speedy. Actually, once I heard the sonic performance of the Basis Vector, noted it tracked in some instances better than the AT, cost tons less, I sold my AT. Had lots of $$ left after the Vector purchase which I applied towards vinyl.

Not all ATs are created equal; there were a bunch of models over the years. The last one I owned may have been the best they made. Without question, it was a fantastic product, but I am happier sonically and have less maintenance overall with the Vector (the AT does require some very minor attention, which really is no biggie, but I'd rather do no maintenance than a little maintenance). Although I'd be happy to live with one of the better Airtangents I don't miss much about them except for 2 things: (1) The initial rush of the musical presentation heard after I installed my 1st AT that made LPs seem so alive, almost each LP heard seemed to contain the sweet presence of a live recording. I'd say the performance for the time period was way up there compared to any competitive product. (2) My 1st AT, the 2B, had electronic cueing and end of the record lift. I do miss that feature a lot.

Hi Tubes!My mention of my pal feeling the Air Tangent was too much maintenance was not complete.The fact is that although I had always seen ease of use,when at his home,he is in his mid seventies.He was beginning to have a hard time navigating the "dessicant container",which he felt was hurting his wrists.Also,he had a mega modded outsourced pump,from a retired dentist,actually.This greatly(and I mean ALOT)improved upon the already wonderful sound he was able to get.This,in turn,required regular trips to the "closet floor",for him,after each listening session.
As he is lucky enough to be retired,he listens to his "LEGENDARY" LP collection daily.Hence--"The arm became a Pain in the tush,and back"!!Literally,for him!

When he told me of his decision to move to the newer version of his table/with it's dedicated arm,I mentioned he would most likely miss it(the A/T),after the joys of low maintenance washed away.I truly believe he now misses that combo,yet like most of us,he isn't about to admit it.
THE AIR TANGENT IS AN INCREDIBLE AND "CLASSIC" PIECE OF AUDIO HARDWARE!!
I don't even know if it is still made,as the website does not seem to exist anymore.I have heard it on scores of occassions.Playing some of the most wonderful LP's of the most "collectible,and sought after" titles we all read about.Oh yeah,the music was INCREDIBLE too!I had heard many upgrades to his system,and it was SO obvious as to how little the A/T made it's presence known.I've yet to hear any product(let alone an arm)that could disappear as well.We all keep reading threads of preferred products,that some of us(including me)like to go on talking about,seemingly forever.I doubt any of these will reach the "CLASSIC(for a good rerason) CLASS" of the Air Tangent!I hope I'm wrong,because some of this newer stuff really intrigues me.
Why you no longer own yours is a mystery to me,but I'm sure you are still a happy camper.Yet as happy as with your A/T??? -;)

Hi. I know nada about the Kuzma but have owned 2 AirTangents. The construction quality of the 2 AT's was excellent. Performance also was excellent. Unless the documentation has changed since I last owned one, they are kinda rough. So if you are doing your own setup, it might help if someone walked you thru the process once. If you do acquire an AT, let me know. I will see if I still have instructions for adjusting alignment. Also, likely I still have my Wally Tractor for the AT which I no longer need.

All tangental arms require a very stable turntable with lots of isolation from the outside world. Keeping the platter level is also another requirement. I've read several mentions that tangental arms require a lot of maintenance. That is not my experience with my ATs.

You have a very nice 'table so I would not expect you to make any changes, but should you ever have an interest changing to a Basis Debut, I have an armboard drilled out for an AirTangent which I no longer need.

Have fun!

Whart,

Nice choice! Let us know how it compares to the Triplanar 7.

Thanks,

Andrew

I just bought the Air Line. I'll let you know how it goes....

I have been in e-mail contact with a person that has a Conductor. He says that the Conductor in his system is significantly better than his ET 2.5. He has heard the Conductor in direct comparison to a Forsell several times and feels the Conductor is also better than the Forsell. As of now the Conductor only comes with a light effective mass arm, which may be a problem depending on your choice of cartridge. A medium mass arm is supposed to be forth coming.

I have read thru the Conductor owners manual. Setup seems straight forward and non-tweaky. The high volume, low air pressure approach makes it very different from the ET 2.5 and other high pressure arms. There is no on-the-fly vta adjustment. However, with a central mounting pillar either Pete Riggles VTAF or the Teres Audio VTA adjuster could be used.

From the pictures I have seen, the fit and finish of the Conductor is not in the same category as a Schroeder. On the other hand, it does keep the price down and probably does not impact the sound quality.

At 1,500GBP, the Conductor is significantly less than either the Kuzma or Airtangent. Though, if I had the money I would buy the Kuzma.

Firstly,BOY are you a lucky guy!!Great analog awaits you,for sure.
I have a dear friend who owned the Air Tangent for about ten years.I am intimately familiar with it.It is a fabulous arm,and extracted more detail from an LP,with the lowest amount of added "personality" that I have ever heard from an arm.
My friend has since moved to a popular unipivot,which is a good arm,but loses that absolute magic of the Air Tangent design.He made the switch due to the "convenience factor" as he is getting on,in years.
The Kuzma Airline seems to be(I have no listening experience here)just as valid a design as the A/T,and has gotten wonderful press!
You probably cannot go wrong with either arm.Yet,you know this already!

BTW-what I heard from my pal's Air Tangent,that I simply have never experienced from any other analog/digital device,was a real sense of "body/ambience/lack of tracking distorted artifacts.THIS is the "big deal" we all hear about in linear designs!
Best of luck with your journey!!

In addition to build quality and sound, I recommend considering the history of each company as well as its representation and support. You don't want to have an orphan five years down the road.