2. amps-preamps
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Air Tight ATM-3, ATM-1 or Thalmann modded CJ Premier Fives?

Would love opinions as i have narrowed a replacement amp search down to these three amps. i will be replacing a Shindo Montrachet that I love, but discovered after I bought it that it is really not made to drive speakers like Quad esl-63s, even though I biamp. Gotta keep the Quads!

I am a "musicality" listener... I am not looking for ultimate neutrality is that means a clear, thin midrange and too much treble balance. I like a rich, organic, full midrange, great timbre/texture, zero edge or brightness, and as much resolution as possible without violating the first three requirements. All things equal Esl-63s like power or at least big trannies to.bring out their macro dynamics. I liisten to 50% acoustic jazz and blues, 30% classical and 20% rock. System is sota star sapphire, ear 834p, Thor TA-1000 pre, quad esl-63 rebuilt by electrostatic solutions (awesome company, product and guy by the way), and vandersteen 2wq subs w passive first order crossovers. digital uses audio note 3.1 sig dac.

The cj premier fives have the Thalman teflon cap upgrade... i just dont know what to expect sonically from them because I never head stock fives but i like the old cj sound pretty well, but quads like some power so they could be interesting. i really want to stick w el-34 tubes, no 6550 amps. I always lusted after Air Tight.

Thanks in advance for thoughts on sonic comparisons between these three amps!

montaldo
13 responses Add your response
jafant's avatar
jafant
19,737 posts
 
Big CJ fan here- montaldo,

I can tell you that any CJ product w/ the teflon upgrade deserves a serious audition prior to any purchase. I know you will enjoy it, experience that CJ "magic".
montaldo OP
201 posts
 
Thanks jafant. is you comment cautionary or are you saying it deserves audition because it will be amazing? i dont have the opportunity to audition before purchase. so i am rolling the dice that teflon will provide more resolution and extension without making the mids too "clean" and throw off the magically delicious tonal balance. Any thoughts on what teflon will and wont do to the tonal balance and tube magic? i am not seeking the modern cj sound.

jafant's avatar
jafant
19,737 posts
 
Good Day montaldo,

the teflon upgrade makes an excellent product, outstanding!
What other gear, including cabling, is in your system?

I have spent much time w/ CJ gear over the years. I am not familar w/ the Premier Fives? How old are the amp(s) in question?
jafant's avatar
jafant
19,737 posts
 
Sidenote: Bill Thalman used to work for CJ, like Steve McCormick, he operates out of Virginia.  If you are serious about the CJ gear- I would reach out and touch him for a consultation. He still offers service/parts for CJ products.
jond's avatar
jond
5,846 posts
 
@montaldo I used to own an Air Tight ATM-1 and I would say its a nice amp, very solid and on the neutral end of the tube sound spectrum, I admired it more than I really loved it. But I had it in my earlier days as an audiophile and wasn’t much into tube rolling so not sure I extracted all that I could from that amp. I am with you on 6550 tubes my first tube amp was a cj premier 11a which turned me off the 6550 for life. I would suspect the ATM-3 would be a nice upgrade on the ATM-1 but I’ve never heard it and can’t comment on the cj fives. Big EL34 lover myself too bad about your Shindo that’s a very nice amp, but I understand not wanting to change your Quads talk about an all time classic. Good luck and keep us posted which direction you ultimately go.
montaldo OP
201 posts
 
Jafant, my system is a Sota star sapphire, ear 834p, Thor TA-1000 pre, quad esl-63 rebuilt by electrostatic solutions, and vandersteen 2wq subs w passive first order crossovers. digital uses audio note 3.1 sig dac.

Premier fives were made from 1981-1985 i believe. At  this point i think i might like a restored pair stock instead of the teflon cap thing. i dont like the clean and clear neutrality thing.

Jond: yeah the quads are too good, to my ears. the Shindo is honestly the best amp i have owned, following nice amps like vtl mb-185 sigs, cary 805, etc. vtls were fantastic until i had to buy new tubes and kevin deal broke the news that you really cant get thr st. petersburg 6550 like they used to make. i bailed on 6550s for good. loved the 805s but they seemed dead on top even to my ears but i think single ended w quads creates issues so i dont blame the wonderful 805s. but oh that Shindo! pure music.
roxy54's avatar
roxy54
8,011 posts
 

Montaldo,

I don't have direct experience, but from what I've read, you should be aware that the Teflon caps have a very long break-in period before they sound their best.

jafant's avatar
jafant
19,737 posts
 
Keep me posted -montaldo
montaldo OP
201 posts
 
Decided try the premier fives... should be interesting and I will try to.report back
c_avila1
185 posts
 
Montaldo, I have extensive experience with Teflon capacitors in various modified components and the CJ ET-3 SE. I can assure you that Teflon caps can provide an amazing soundstage and an astoundingly clear window into the recorded material. I highly recommend CJ's products with Teflon caps.

I burn in Teflon caps in my modified Running Springs Haley power conditioner for a month before installing them into components (the Haley will always use a pair of 1uf Teflon caps due to the great improvements they provide to my sound system). Maybe you can find your own way to ease the burn in of components with Teflon caps.

Here's a tip for CJ products: CJ likes to use large film caps in the regulated high voltage power supply. Bypass those large film caps with 1uf Teflon caps. Your component will improve with 3D imaging and a blacker background. In general, Teflon caps are awesome in power supplies so don't be shy to bypass electrolytics with them. 
jafant's avatar
jafant
19,737 posts
 
Thanks! for the update- montaldo
jafant's avatar
jafant
19,737 posts
 
Thanks! for sharing- c_avila1

the CJ ET-3se is a very fine pre-amp.  Happy Listening!
montaldo OP
201 posts
 
I tried the Premier Fives and liked the sound quite a bit. Big, dynamic, smooth. However they had some mechanical issue and the seller took them back. Immediately after I found a pair of Lamm M1.1 monoblocks for sale and jumped at them. I have not owned anything but all-tube amps for 20 years, but I have read the Lamms are very musical hybrids. I should have them by late next week. Onward...

Thanks for everyone's input!

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