Active Speaker Choice

steve59 - thanks, looking at KEF R11s and Martin Logan 60 xtis presently

There’s some passive speakers that sound fast and powerful with exciting dynamics JBL, klipsch, any passive speakers that are +90 dB eff should do, now you just need to find the pair that work for you. 

I have since picked up an integrated amplifier, so the search for active speakers has come to an end. Thanks again to all that contributed to this thread, I have learned a lot!

csmgolf - djones51, thanks very much.

I have the Genelec 8351b and I'm the first to admit they aren't for everyone. They are about the most revealing speaker out there without any forgiveness of bad recording. I do use DSP EQ and a roll off of .5db per 1000 hz from 1000hz to 20Khz so it's down 10db which makes them a little softer.  I also use 2 subwoofers, if I could afford it I would get 2 W371a's  to go with them but they're $19K. I would never recommend anyone buy them without getting the GLM system for calibration. 

I was the one that mentioned them. I actually bought the pair that is shown in this review and picked them up from the reviewer's home. How Carlo describes them is pretty much spot on. I took it a step farther and bought the Mini DSP Studio as well. The parametric eq can be done through the Studio vice in the amp. Any of the eq I used is done after Dirac. They are well built, look good, and sound great. Phillip is making a newer version of this now called the 3.2 http://www.bambergaudio.com/products/series3/3pt2.php . If I remember correctly, they will be a single cabinet version and use the newer Hypex Fusion amp (FA 123) in them. With the mini DSP included, you can be all in for about 7k and need to supply a source or two. 

Someone mentioned these earlier in this thread, does anyone have any experience with them?

Bamberg Series 3 TMW Active Loudspeaker Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com

Thank you fiesta75, the search continues either way.

Maybe you're right about accessories, but think most buyers simply don't know about active speaker benefits. Actives are the best in my opinion too. Most speakers with passive crossovers don't sound very good, I bypassed mine 40 years ago! $14k for speakers is a lot of $$, you can do better used. I don't think I have more than $20k in my entire system which has so much more versatility than simple active speakers. Good luck!

steve59 - Thanks. I did listen to some Genelec 8351's that sounded pretty good, especially for the price, but decided to pass. The ATC SCM 40A's sounded good (probably for a bigger room than I have) but I missed the demos that were on sale, so at over $14K and still needing a pre-amp, it puts them out of my range.
Actives are hard to find at dealers. I'm sure they don't want to sell them as they can't sell you all the accessories that go along with passives such as amplification, cables, etc.   

I think you're on the right track with actives, you just have to go out and listen to a few to decide what you like.

At his time, I have decides against pursuing active speakers. Thanks to all who contributed to my post.

Powered Advents

Try listen to Barefoot Sound Micromain 27 to.

Thank you for the offer but l think this is getting too complicated for me. I have no idea what I would want.

I'd be happy to. How many ways? 2-way, 3-way, more? Crossover slopes? Lowest cost? Just basic?

Hmm, anyway you could provide a detailed schematic on how to hook this all up in a 2-channel system? 

High-amp - That's a good one, guess that was above steve. Not that expensive, was using Phase Linear and Crown when I started 42 years ago. Made my own active electronic X-overs for years. Never went back to passive crossovers for main room.

Sound expensive!
fiesta75 - steve59 Are you the same guys?

Analog active crossovers work just like digital ones, high and low pass filters before the amplifiers. Each set of drivers get its own amplifier so amps see a resistive load. This approach virtually eliminates IM distortion which is what your ears dislike most. Passive speaker crossovers are eliminated, no phase shift, added resistances or unwanted delay. Just not all the bells and whistles of a DSP, thus no digital "noise".


WHAT?

Analog active crossovers work just like digital ones, high and low pass filters before the amplifiers. Each set of drivers get its own amplifier so amps see a resistive load. This approach virtually eliminates IM distortion which is what your ears dislike most. Passive speaker crossovers are eliminated, no phase shift, added resistances or unwanted delay. Just not all the bells and whistles of a DSP, thus no digital "noise". 

luisma31 - thanks, I'll check it out.

fiesta75 - Can you please elaborate, I'm not sure how this works?

I prefer analog active crossovers, no DSP's. Once you go this route with multiple amplifiers, you will never go back! Stock passive crossovers suck.

Check Heavenly Soundworks, FIVE17 and others. My friend Bob reviewed a few actives for audiophilestyle, he bought the floor models of Kii at Axpona, he reviewed these, then the Burchdarts, another one I think and I noticed online the Heavenly Soundworks and messaged him, he got em the next week and reviewed these as well.
https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/review-heavenly-soundworks-five17-r984/
He was very much impressed, don't know if would be a good fit but feel free to check it out

spoutmouzert - interesting, Geithains' have been mentioned here before.
I hope they sound better than they look!
Although, it seems many of the active speakers (Genelec, Dutch & Dutch, Kii 3 & particularly the Devialet Phantoms) all have that unique look of there own. 

Nice thread, also thinking of going active one day

FYI https://sonicpurity.com.au/blog/2017/9/27/me-geithain-active-speakers

High-amp, I’m not advocating for meridian only justifying my own purchase because I could never recommend them at the prices they charge for new, used levels the playing field. Honestly if you understand (I don’t) how speaker placement works in your specific room any brand can make you happy.

Roger that, thanks Brad.

HI High-amp.  I am not a dealer, I am the importer to the US of all ATC.  Have been for 20 years on pro, about 6 years on consumer.     Our consumer website is lonemountainaudio.com
Our pro website is transaudiogroup.com
Brad

djones51 - you hade D&D and settled on the Genelecs?

steve59 & jdbsi - agreed, they were not set-up properly, but at $20K the DSP 2500 SE's are outta my price range.

celtic66 - going to hear the ATC SMC 40A's this Saturday at a demo price of $$11,189. which I could handle. These are in a wood grain though. So add in the white color to satisfy the WAF factor that gets me back up to $15K. Getting a bit pout of my league again... UGH!

I've had Dutch and Dutch 8c, Genelec 8351b , Buchardt A700 and none of them are plug and play. They are simple to set up but rooms are not the same they need to be calibrated. 

There’s many powered speakers out there but active dsp is another animal. Whats best forum has a very informative thread on the D&D dsp speakers and the owner/reviewer describes in detail the care put into setup and while it makes sense l think I expect dsp designs to be plug and play. ATC, Genelec and  Meridian have been around  while Kii and D&D are new kids on the block and getting press. Nobody can predict what the op will prefer.

I’ve run the ATC 40A speakers for over two years and there is no turning back from the immediacy and dynamics active produce.  It is truly a different and wonderful world.  With each upgrade they move forward reflecting the chosen improvement.

These are sealed box so integrate well into a less than optimal room.  I chose Isoacoustics Gaia footers coupled with carpet discs and placed GIK diffusers behind for even greater effect.

Approaching the cost factor;  you need no longer chase amplifiers, speaker wire or ride the upgrade carousel.  Transducer satisfaction guaranteed.

For the OP, I suspect that those Meridian DSP5200SEs you demo'd were not set-up properly.  Not questioning what you heard, but when properly set-up and configured, the Meridians are really impressive.  

The dsp5200se was probably against the wall and they’re the only pair of the 3 current floor standers that are rear ported. I won’t buy a new pair of speakers without hearing them in my room first. Genelec is pretty impressive and they have their fans.

I actually demoed a pair of $20,000 Meridian DSP 2500 SE’s and the three of us listening thought the $1600 pair of Genelec G3’s sounded better...go figure?

Just like passives, Active dsp systems will have their own sound. I really like Meridian for the rich full midrange and bass. Used M is competitive and established. The models get upgrades over the years so it's worth taking some time to find out what the .2 or se add to the product, or the different tweeters over the years. 

Thank you djones51

Geithain is hard to get in the US. I know there's a dealer in the UK don't know if they ship to the US. 

murphythecat - Thanks, checking out ATC on May 22! Geithain sounds like a tough one to demo, especially when I’ve never even heard of it but sometimes those are the best ones! Have a good weekend.

ATC or Geithain

lonemountain - see above

djones51, thanks for the info.

If you get a chance the Neumann KH310 is another great monitor though a bit different  they are laid on the side and are designed specifically left and right. Actives that are more home friendly aesthetically are Dynaudio, Elac Navis and Dali. 

The G3 is basically the same as the 8030. I have the 8351B which are in the family of The Ones, any with 83x1 at the end. I also use two subwoofers. The main difference other than price ,the 83x1 series are 3 way and have the ability to use Genelec GLM to fine tune the speakers to the room. You’ll notice the difference in accuracy with the coaxial driver and waveguide when you hear the 8331 to the G3. I’m not sure how you’re consider using these but the smaller 8030,8331 are nearfield speakers for smaller rooms or close monitoring. The guide in the link shows the best distances for use.

https://www.genelec.com/correct-monitors

Hey Brad, I see you are an ATC dealer, but I don't see any SCM40's on your website. I have the option of demoing a pair these an hour and a half down the road from me. Have you heard these, is it worth the drive?

djones recommends Genelecs. I was fortunate enough to hear a pair of G3's this past Saturday and they sounded awesome at $1200 a pair. djones51 has the 8341's which are 3 times the price so I can't even imagine how much better they would sound over the G3's. Going to  demo some 8331's in a couple of weeks. 

Heck, just before I listened to the G3's I listen to a pair of Meridian DSP2500SE's and honestly, my wife and I (and the dealer) all though the little G3's sounded better the the Meridians...Go figure.

It must be said for actives, the main objective will always be linear phase and reduced distortion-not just the "all-in-one" package solution.  Actives are not a speaker "rack system" that creates the illusion of a better solution by reducing choices. 

Active reduces losses and errors in the system.  A proper active set up images better and resolves details better than a passive one with the same exact amps and drivers.  I demo this at nearly every hi fi show. 

The effects of copper well discussed within the cable arguments that never end.  It always strikes me why this does not seem to transfer over to the gigantic chunk of copper you know nothing about and cannot change sitting between amp and driver and how it affects the amp/driver sound.  We argue about the speaker wire hung on the back end of the passive crossover, but the crossover itself has such massive coils of copper passing audio!   We wouldn't consider such a thing if we could see it, I'm convinced.  Processing after the amplifier at speaker level will seem so "did we really do that?"  one day.  

Brad

djones51, I sent you a PM

djones51, thanks for the heads-up on the XD60. This is one of the few lines that I can demo somewhat locally.

If you can’t do many room treatments you should look into narrow dispersion speakers and sit near or mid field, you will hear the speaker more than the room. In a room with a lot of hard surfaces, windows, etc.. like you describe you’ll get better sound quality with narrow, look at the dynaudio XD line they’re fairly narrow and the XD60 is full range.