A queston of Classe', or other amps

An update on 4/22/20,

 

The shop recapping my M2 power amp has had it untouched on their bench for 4 weeks.   The repair shop I might prefer that is Yamaha certified will be closed for a few more weeks and may be backlogged when it does open I must be patient.  Before I spend $6,200 on a new Bryston 4B3 or $4,500 on a used Bryston 4B3 or Classe I would like to hear my Magnepan 3.7i speakers with the recapped Yamaha M2 amplifier.

I am also paying attention to used Classe power amps for sale here on Audiogon. I am a little uninformed on all the various Classe power amps. My local dealer, only 100 miles away may also have some demo Classe amps in stock.  I know I like how Classe amps sound. I know the 2020 Classe power amps cost $10,000 which I refuse to spend. I don’t know the best years and models to seek out and which ones are the worst heat guns.

I am told that not far from me a Classe owner is looking to sell a pair of amplifiers, model and age unspecified, but with the quarantine I have not been able to contact him.  I would love to demo his amp/s in my listening room.

In a perfect world I could compare my Yamaha to both Classe’ and Bryston in my own listening room and I would know what to do in only a few hours.

The latest developments, while I wait for my Classe dealer to reopen (30-45 days?), is that my Yamaha M-2 power amp is in the shop, and this time I plan to recap it. This is not an inexpensive or trivial medical procedure.  The Yamaha M-2 has two capacitors in particular that are the size of coffee cans, so replacing those along with many smaller siblings may cost $500 or more.

 

In my perfect and imaginary world my fresh Yamaha will be capable of taking on all contenders.  Anticipating other outcomes I still have an interest in Classe and Mr. Snyder your comments are particularly helpful. My Classe dealer has 3 locations and seems willing to “make a deal” on what ever he has in stock when he reopens. I am having trouble getting a listing of his Classe inventory and pricing so I could know my options.

RE CA-M400 vs. CA-M600 et all, duly noted, very useful to me, thank you very much

 > One final note...  The system as outlined above demands and deserves high end power, interconnect, USB and speaker cables.  I am using Nordost Valhalla and they absolutely bring out the best. – I have always been skeptical of magical cables, but I will try your recommendations. (Thank you)

 > Mr Schubert RE: Buy while the dollar is still worth something.

 These are unusual times. Recently the dollar is up markedly against the Euro, CDN, AUD and steady against the Yen. As screwed as we (USA = dollar) may be, it may be that most all other nations are far worse off.  Since Putin picked an oil fight with Saudi Arabia the Ruble is taking a bath. The price of crude oil could actually go negative.  Gold which one buys in anticipation of times like these has failed to perform as promised.  Yes these are most unusual times, but I expect a rapid economic recover as long as the Second Coming does not interfere.  The Fatima prophesy (Oct 1917) was that the world would end in 100 years. My next audio system might just (hopefully) be a harp.   ;-)

 

I recently purchased a used pair of CAM600 monoblocks. My speakers are Apogee Duetta Signature ribbon panel speakers which are low efficiency (86 dB). My listening rom dimension are 18 x 11. I am retired and listening either to music or TV in my room close to 5 hours/day during the Corona virus pandemic.

 I can guarantee you that the Classé amps will not heat up your listening room. I had the amps running for a few hours today and their aluminium case is actually at room temperature. I do not sense any kind of heat at their touch.

Timothy,
Very sensible response.  One note... the CA-M400 is the previous generation.  It runs warmer than the 600 same situation with CA-2200 vs. CA 2300.  My experience is that there is less heat and slightly better sound quality on the later ones.  You can easily tell the difference by the front panel.  The earlier generation has the LED’s and selection between balanced and single ended.  The later has an air inlet and only a single LED for on/off/standby.  Cost is significantly lower on earlier generation. 2200 is less than $2K, 2300 is over $3K.  Similar changes with 400 vs. 600.  Also note that the CT rack versions (while being same electronics) all had $500 lower retail prices than CA (silver) version.  

All of these amplifiers are excellent sounding and reasonable values on the used market.  

Also, fun fact... If you search internet you can find pictures of Abbey Road studio recording rooms and mix rooms with B&W speakers situated next to double stacks of CAM-400 mono blocks (normally 3 sets of 2 per studio)... pretty cool!

First; thank you one and all; for your insightful, thoughtful, helpful contributions.  I am getting an education (via research) on “mid-size” Classè amps, midsize as in less than 1200wpc in to 4 ohm. I am comfortable but not wealthy and one could argue that at some point spending a fortune ($20,000) on huge monoblocks is actually unwise, wasteful and perhaps sinful.  I aim to peruse some moderate course.  Classè CA-M400, or CA-2300 so that my power amps are not worth more that what I drive around in everyday.

 In that the Yamaha makes 350wpc without clipping I do find myself listening at high power levels more often than I thought I would.  The maggies are so inefficient that if the amp is not clipping they could suck all the power out of the Hoover Dam hydro plant. I am still looking for that transparent imaging I heard with the Classe amps and sadly the only knob I have to tweak is the “more volume” but that isn’t giving me what I need.  I believe that if I could get the transparent imaging I am looking for at lower volumes I would listen at lower levels.  (> look at it as a system.)  I suspect the system approach mentioned is the most relevant critical analysis.  Thank you.

 It is not important to me, as in bragging rights or wife acceptance factor that my power amps are or are not in the form of mono blocks.  So something like a CAM-600 would be perfectly acceptable.

 It may come down to what the dealer has in stock as his demo items, he seems willing and able to horse trade.

 My listening room is only 15’ by 24’ with TV and speakers centered on the long wall.  My speakers are 5’ off the back wall. If my listening room became 100F every time I used my stereo I could never use it.   It is only recently with my latest PC build that my home office does not get 100F with my water cooled PC.  I hated that.

 I will not buy anything with out extended listening to it first, what I buy may be used (demo) but it will be “new retail”. The great simplification and saving grace is that I know I love the sound of Classe driving Magnepans.

Why waste money? Get a Crown XLS1502 amp. 525 wpc/4 ohms! $439 from Crutchfield, Parts Express and others with free shipping. Don't fall for the bs that only expensive boutique amps are worth using! 525 wpc is certainly enough for the 3.7's! And you don't need a preamp as the 1502 has input pots! So you can go direct from your streamer/DAC!

timothywright,

I am the friend that Ron17 was referring to that just purchased the CA-2300 and yes I am thrilled with it.  Ron probably told me about your posting because I have only been somewhat joking with him about my listening room being cold compared to with my prior amplification, a BAT VK-500se batpak dual mono amplifier which was strongly biased towards class-A and therefor served as a room heater for my 800 ft2 listening room.  This was exacerbated because I left the amp on nearly all the time as it was not equipped with a standby mode.

The BAT is a wonderful amp and I will be very sad to see it go but the Classe is better in many ways; clarity, bass, slam, ambiance, are all just better and the difference was not subtle.  The design of the CAM-600 is basically a CA-2300 with the 2 channels of output internally bridged together.  The ICTunnel design has a variable speed fan that maintains optimum temperature for the electronics and it does not run warm compared to the earlier generations.  I also have a CA-5100 for surround channels and this amplifier runs a bit warmer but nowhere near the BAT.  

I listen to a huge variety of music from the last 500 years to the last 5 months and I listen at “elevated” levels.  My speakers are quite efficient (ProAc response 5) but I definitely like the 300 wpc of the Classe.  If you can afford the mono blocks, I would encourage you to buy them, I doubt you will be at all disappointed and they will not heat up your room (to my slight dismay).  In terms of preamplification, rather than the older and far more expensive Classe CP800 I recommend you consider the Classe Sigma SSP (either original or Mk2.  For a complete 7.1 pre-amp processor that originally sold for $5000 it delivers phenomenal sound and capabilities.  Add an Aurender (I have one available...) or a Roon nucleus with an outboard power supply and you have a phenomenal system for a reasonable budget.  

If you want to cut your costs in half on amplification. Ron is right, buy a 2300 and you will be thrilled.

One final note...  The system as outlined above demands and deserves high end power, interconnect, USB and speaker cables.  I am using Nordost Valhalla and they absolutely bring out the best.

Good luck!

Buy while the dollar is still worth something .

The Hegel H360 integrated with DAC has come way down in price since it was discontinued 

You could post in the 'speakers' forum with a heading something like 'amp recommendation for Maggie 3.7i". That way you'd spark interest with Maggie owners.

I've owned several Classe amps but never the monos. A good friend just bought a CA-2300 on the used market and absolutely loves it. 300 wpc stereo amp that runs cool to very light warm. I see one on Agon now listed for 3499.00....That's where I would start. Good luck!

look at it as a system. The Rotel, Yamaha, and. Oppo  are nowhere near as good as your speakers                                   

I have never owned a Rotel product but perhaps your speakers are so revealing that it is picking up some of the Rotels weaknesses. It could also be that your 40 year old amp is ready for recapping?
There is a planer forum over At Audio Asylum, perhaps they could guide you. A lot of members here have or have experience with your speakers and may be able to help.

I have found it is better to ask than just throw money away on something that may or not be better (or worse) than what you have new.

I am interested in your solution. Currently using 1.7s and will be upgrading to the 3.7i this coming fall. Have been speaking with a salesperson from Sanders regarding their amplifier because I also do not want a space heater.  Unfortunately I can not audition this type of equipment here in Wilmington NC.  Please post a follow up or send me a message when you do make a choice. Thanks!