2. amps-preamps
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2000-2500 USD budget for an integrated amplifier. Do amplifiers sound the same? :)

Hey guys!

My first post here! Great community here!

I recently bought a pair of Klipsch Forte III and I’m thinking about upgrading my current budget amplifier Cambridge CXA60. My budget is around 2500 USD. I hope you guys can give me a few insights. Cheers!


Current setup:

  • Macbook Pro
  • Network streamer + DAC: Chord Mojo + Poly
  • Amplifier: Cambridge CXA60 (60 watt)
  • Speakers: Klipsch Forte III, 99db sensitivity
  • Subwoofer: Klipsch R-115SW
  • The room is pretty small: 4*6 meters (roughly 13*19 ft) but very well acoustically treated (I covered all the power corners with GIK acoustics bass Tritraps and Soffit + complete acoustic treatment on early reflection points

The Cambridge amp sounds nice with the Fortes but I feel like I’m missing out on something. I don’t know what "something" actually, since I haven’t paired the Fortes with anything yet but the Cambridge.

So the crucial question is: should I upgrade?

I’ve been considering integrated amps like the Rotel RA 1592 and the Peachtree nova300.

I know that it’s kind of an overkill to drive the Forte III with respectively 200 watts (Rotel) and 300 watts (Peachtree).

However knowing myself, I might upgrade the whole system (speakers included) in like 4-5 years or so. And it might be nice to have a capable high powered amp around (with lots of power headroom) so I won’t need to spend further capital again on a new amplifier in a few years.

On the other hand, I feel like I’m wasting quite a bit of money buying a powerful integrated amplifier right now. At the end of the day the Cambridge CXA60’s got 60 watt and it is more than sufficient to drive the Forte III.

This leads to another thing that’s bugging me… The sound quality of an amplifier! People like Ethan Wiener argue in a very convincing way that when compared evenly, the sonic differences between amplifiers operated below clipping are below the audible threshold of human hearing.

This guy summarized this view here:

https://jakekuyser.wordpress.com/2016/05/23/do-hi-fi-amplifiers-sound-alike/


Furthermore I’ll most probably have Sonarworks room digital EQ correction toggled on all the time to remove all the equipment unwanted colorations. These colorations might sound nice, but I’m more of a "I want to hear what the artist intended" type of a listener.

(((To me Sonarworks was an eye opener when I first used it to calibrate my Sennheiser HD800.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2017/8/24/headphone-shootout-sennheiser-hd800-vs-hd800s

It made me think about the extreme amount of the self delusion nature in the audiophile community. Many audiophiles rave about the alleged flat response of the HD800 when there are indisputable peaks at 5,5kHz and 11kHz, plus very very weak bass. Without correction they’re almost annoying to me and they definitely do not deliver what the artist/sound engineers intended. However, these cans are very often just described as extremely revealing, clinical, unforgiving… which eventually led to the claim that the HD800 is picky regarding the amp…)))

Questions:

  1. So considering that I’ll most probably have Sonarworks room digital EQ correction toggled on all the time to remove all the equipment unwanted colorations, do you guys still think that I might be able to get a "better" sound by upgrading the Cambridge to a more powerful amp, like the the Rotel RA 1592 and the Peachtree nova300?
  2. Is it worth to spend 2000-2500 USD more for this? Or should I use this money for a better DAC or a network streamer?

Sorry guys for this long post!

Cheers,

Egoq


egoquaero
57 responses Add your response
black_circles_records
7 posts
 
I think you should consider Primaluna, the Prologue would fit inside your budget, if you want to go tubes and new.

Also, a lot of great used gear here on Audiogon to save a pretty penny.

Lot of folks seem to match them to McIntosh too. The MA252 is a bit of a stretch, but may be worth it.


mike_in_nc
1,147 posts
 
Not knowing your gear, I’d like to make a few general remarks that may (or may not) be helpful.

First, I think that Ethan W. overstates his case. Amplifiers do affect the sound, to my ears. Still, I hear far more important differences among speakers than among amplifiers. So the question is, are you missing "something" because of the amplifier or the speakers or the combination (or something else entirely)? If you can set up some comparison listening, it should help answer that question.

I am a long-time user of correction. I hear a wide variation in quality among room correction algorithms, and an improvement lately. Many, if not most, systems can flatten or harden the sound a little, something that becomes more important as your system becomes more revealing. I am not criticizing Sonarworks; I know nothing about it.

I agree with @erik_squires that the only way of knowing whether an "upgrade" is an upgrade is to hear it in your own system. That might involve borrowing both speakers and a recommended amp at the same time to see what you think.

Audio can be a difficult hobby, not because it is particularly intellectually challenging (though it can be), but because a lot of time and focused listening are required to make changes that are real improvements. For example, there are guidelines for speaker positioning, but in the end, trial and error are what get you there. Have fun!
Post removed 
luxmancl38
580 posts
 
My dealer recently had his annual spring audio show. He had the Forte III's hooked up to a new Primaluna EVO 100 integrated an EAT C-Sharp TT w/a Jos.No5 cart and a Luxman E-250 phono. They played some Stevie Ray Vaughn and this system really rocked. Tubes and Forte III's go together like BBQ and a Ice Cold Beer.
Post removed 
erik_squires
16,056 posts
 
To be more practical, when picking an integrated you should listen to it with your speakers. Some interactions are more complicated than others.
erik_squires
16,056 posts
 
What's most important really is not what theorists, or romanticists say, but what you hear.


Ultimately,  your own empirical evidence is the main reason to spend any money at all in this hobby. I can argue that most measurements are stuck in the 1970s and use overly simplistic models for amplifier behavior. I might be right, or I could say to you that I really like my integrated amp enough to have spent the money for it (a point which cannot be false).


I mean, lets say I hear a difference between a $500 amp and a $5,000 amp. How does that ultimately matter to you, if you can't?


Everything else is interesting, research, fun to chat about.


The other thing to point out, and caution you, is that this hobby is like the abyss which stares back. You can learn to discern a lot, because your ear/brain mechanism is capable of tremendous discrimination and adaptation, but knowing what brings you joy to begin with is important. Don't train yourself to hear things that ultimately aren't important.


Best,

E
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