New cables for Thorens TD 160


Hi All,

First post, long time fan. Anyone replaced the
RCA leads for a Thorens TD 160?

I picked up a Thorens TD 160 recently. Literally-
someone was carrying it out to throw away. It had a
Grado XF 1 cartridge and broken RCA jacks. Okay, I had
the needle scoped and it still had 1/3 of its life left,
but I got a replacement anyway. Had a local shop replace
the leads with shielded cables they swore by. So I hooked
it up. The thing put out maybe half the volume of my CD
player. I had to turn it up very high to get decent gain,
and the midrange was pretty sad.

I replaced the Grado with a Pickering XSV 3000 I happened
to have around (!) and got pretty much the same thing
(with more detail and soundstage of course). Not good.

I am thinking the cable replacement is the culprit. The TT
is clean and works in all other respects. Does anyone have
a recommended cable for this purpose? I appear to need one
with low capacitance. TIA!
crema
A possibility that occurs to me is that two of the four connections are interchanged somewhere in the cabling, such that the RCA center pins of the left and right channel inputs of the PAS-3 are connected to opposite ends of the same coil in the cartridge (corresponding to one of the two channels), and the ground shells of the left and right RCA connectors on the preamp are connected to opposite ends of the other coil in the cartridge (corresponding to the other channel).

Without analyzing the schematic of the PAS-3 I'm not sure what the result of that would be, but it seems conceivable to me that it could manifest itself as the very weak volume you are describing.

I would get a multimeter, if you don't already have one, DISCONNECT THE HEADSHELL LEADS FROM THE CARTRIDGE (so that the voltage that is put out by the meter is not applied to the cartridge), disconnect the RCA plugs from the PAS-3, and measure continuity from each headshell lead to the corresponding center pin or ground shell of the corresponding RCA plug.

Assuming that the headshell leads are color coded white, blue, red, and green:

White should have continuity to the left channel RCA center pin.
Blue should have continuity to the left channel RCA ground shell.
Red should have continuity to the right channel RCA center pin.
Green should have continuity to the right channel RCA ground shell.

Regards,
-- Al
Al, sounds like a good idea, if I had multimeter.
Suppose I should own one. The shop suggests,
"I don’t think the problem is the cables we put in. It’s possible the tonearm wires are bad but also unlikely.

Turntables have weird, subtle problems because the signal level is very low to begin with but I have gotten very good at sorting them out. "

Remember, I have no idea of the history of this table.
But it sure did look clean, except for those cables, which
were original, though broken.
Agree with Almarg. If you don't have a multimeter then try swapping headshell leads around for 1 channel. eg: connect the red headshell lead to the green pin on the cartridge and the green lead to the red pin on the cartridge and see what happens. I suspect the workshop that did the cables inadvertently connected the + & - leads the wrong way around at the turntable end for one channel.
An interesting thought- that the ground and signal
might be reversed. I just tried reversing the connection
on one channel and no change.

I wonder has anyone seen a signal drop from such a
reversal before? You'd think if the theory were sound
(if you will), reversing the +/- would always lead
(again if you will) to a signal gain or drop.

Anyway, back to the shop.
To clarify my earlier comment, I was not addressing the possibility that the two connections for one channel are interchanged, as the post by Tanathen78 earlier in the thread had already addressed that. As he indicated, that would result in the two channels being out of phase with each other, which would be perceived as vague and diffuse imaging, and probably also as reduced bass (which in turn might contribute to a perception of reduced volume).

What I was addressing was the possibility that the + wire of one channel might be interchanged with the - wire of the OTHER channel. In other words red interchanged with blue, OR white interchanged with green.

That would result in the center pins of the preamp's RCA inputs for the two channels being connected to each other through one of the cartridge's two coils, with both inputs "floating" (i.e., having no definable voltage or impedance) relative to the preamp's ground.

I don't know what the resulting sonic consequences would be, as they most likely would be dependent on the design of the particular phono stage. But it's certainly safe to say that the sound would be far from normal, and it seems quite conceivable to me that the result could be the very weak volume you have described.

I'm hesitant to suggest that you intentionally introduce that kind of reversal as an experiment, however, because another possible consequence that is conceivable to me would be a loud and potentially destructive hum or oscillation (although being careful with the volume control would PROBABLY eliminate any possibility of harm). That is one reason I suggested checking all of the wiring with a multimeter instead. Hopefully the shop will now do that for you.

Regards,
-- Al