Why are subwoofers so polarizing?


I will admit I have never been a proponent of subwoofers in a 2 channel system. Maybe i've not heard the proper set up or the level of sub was not equal to the speaker. The last great application was over 20 years ago when I heard a Pro-Ac Tablette with a forgotten subwoofer. I'm sure in the last 20+ years the technology has improved but why are subs still mainly limited to home theater systems? As always I appreciate your time and thoughts.
dayglow
Audyssey also is interested in the way I measure. But this I will keep for myself. Audyssey is not an easy system. Because you need to work very precise. Many of my clients and friends hate it. I understand why, when you do not work precise the measurement will work against you. The first test I did with Audyssey is almost 3 years ago. The only experience I had was with Tact roomcorrection, later Lyngdorf. I never liked this system to be honnest. I was amazed by the balance of the overwhole sound at the first measurment I did with Audyssey. I still was playing stereo and without a subwoofer. Because as you know I sold it but I did not like it for stereo use. I Always had very expensive stuff private. This time I wanted to do it differently. So I didn't buy very expensive stuff. I thought I will buy a surround system just as a second set and just for pleasure. At the end it changed my way about sub's and about Multi channel. I Always owned expensive 2 channel sets without a sub. I just had sold my XP-20 and XA100.5 mono's. Wenn you are in this business and you are addicted to music you want the best as possible. I always did spent most of my money to audio in my life. I do this since I was 6. I started with the Onkyo TX-NR808 and BD-SP808 in 2010. At that moment I still had the Meridian 800 DAXv4 of 25000 dollar. I was surprised that this cheap Onkyo even had depth. I Always test everything in how big a stage is. Because a deep and wide stage makes highend audio the most thrilling. The first measurment I did with Audyssey I already was aware of the lost in dynamics. So I thought mmmmmmm this need to improve soon. I started to test at different hights and places. After some time I found a way to loose less dynamics. I have a photograhpic memory in sound. I can remember exactly the way it sounds and how the stage is build at the first option. Wenn I change a part I can easilly compare it with the first option. I can Judge all the parts in audio in a few seconds. I know wenn it is better or wenn it is worse and why. This makes it more easy to get a higher level. Now after almost 3 years I can even change the depth and wide of the stage. Audyssey is a lot more than only roomcorrection. It also gives you more drive, speed and resolution. I can let people hear a lot more details of the music they thought they knew. It is also the control in the low freq. what gives you the possibility to play loud without any problem in the low freq. Wenn I play Kraftwerk or japanese drumm at extreme volumes there is no problems in the low freq anymore. This is a way of freedom I never thought it would be possible. Without my Audyssey pro measurment even my PLW-15 does not sound that great. Also with XT-32 I had very good results with the PLW-15. Audyssey Pro went even a lot further. These days I can even go further with Audyssey pro. I can change the whole freq. respons. I ask my clients what they want to change. I never had a tool what gave me this quality in sound and this freedom. But I use it at a totally different way compared to how Audyssey uses it.I was surprised that a brand like Onkyo could even make a wide and deep stage. Because normally you needed to go to more expensive brands. Time and technique goes on and this changes the world of audio all the time. For me it Always will be a search to those new tools which can lift audio to a higher level. A brand does not say anything, for me it always will be those who are the best at this moment.
I use a total of 3 Subs, two front and 1 rear. All three for theater with an LFE input to the crossover for the front and a separate output from the processor for the rear. The 2 fronts are double duty and used for two channel also. The fronts are Mono Theater and stereo for 2 channel. I crossover the fronts for two channel at about 30hz so the music has to be load for them to turn on. If i play jazz they really never turn on. I sometimes play classical but usually not at load volume so on sometimes but mostly off. Now when it comes to rock like Pink Floyd, Ozzy or Deep Purple they come to life in spades as I play load. It does take lots of work to get them setup correctly but is worth the time. I feel subs load the room and fill in where the main speaker cannot ever with the 11" woofers in my main speakers. I used a graphic sound analyzer with and without the subs and the graph looked better with the subs on much less dips.
Many of my clients did not use there sub with stereo music. Now with Audyssey Pro they cannot imagine not to use it anymore even for stereo use. Now they use it till 120hz. In the past a lot lower.
Bo1972 is utterly full of crap in his ridiculously overstated comments regarding the myth of sub "speed" and should be ignored. Otherwise he's fine.