How good is good enough?

@mahgister , it is a gross misunderstanding if you think object based audio degrades timbre?! The only requirement they impose is that the drivers, crossovers, etc are identical (identical speakers are required, same as it is for stereo!) and the same ethos for stereo gets extended w.r.t setup.

A true stereo purist may go for something like the Polk L800 speaker if he were to remain true to his purist orthodoxy, which does cross talk cancellation really well, when set up right...Pretty sure, Polk has a patent there and hence one would be stuck with the quality of drivers, etc Polk can produce (which ain’t all that great). Creative tinkered with it starting in the 90s for PC Audio. This is not some revelation.

Never said Choueiri is a dummy or "downgraded" him... I am from the same engineering discipline as he is, or at least prior to his audio ventures. I have met him in conferences (long before Bacch, before anyone knew who he was). I have read some of his publications, am sure he has read some of mine. He has successfully navigated the patent boobytraps all over the place and brought something to market (commendable). I am not all that a fan of vulture grade MSB he has decided to partner with, however. If you fly down south to the USA, I can give all kinds comparisons to Bacch and whatever else. Theorycrafting (like you’ve done) can often be quite different from observation of its real life execution.

@mahgister , it is a gross misunderstanding if you think object based audio degrades timbre?!

I never said that multichannels degrade timbre more than stereo....I said that the road taken by Choueiri was taken by others before him playing with this crosstalk problem , but he succeed the first with a mathematical solution not degrading timbre ...

All stereo problems are solved by multichannels or BACCH filters in their own way... As i said above answering you , i will not enter in the debate what is better ... I only wanted to respond to what appeared to me a slander with no argument about Choueiri the man ...

Never said Choueiri is a dummy or "downgraded" him... I am from the same engineering discipline as he is, or at least prior to his audio ventures. I have met him in conferences (long before Bacch, before anyone knew who he was). I have read some of his publications, am sure he has read some of mine. He has successfully navigated the patent boobytraps all over the place and brought something to market (commendable). I am not all that a fan of vulture grade MSB he has decided to partner with, however. If you fly down south to the USA, I can give all kinds comparisons to Bacch and whatever else. Theorycrafting (like you’ve done) can often be quite different from observation of its real life execution.

Defending Choueiri i perhaps misread your intention...I apologize if it is the case...

I will only say that his solution is not perfect nothing is but it is not a gadget improvised between other patented solutions... It is a bit more interesting ...

And comparing the BACCH filters with other solutions ask for dedicated optimal acoustic room to serve it not a living room or a home theater...

I did not theorized about what is better : multichannels done masterfuly or BACCH filters in a dedicated optimal acoustic room ... The two are too different beasts able to serve different goals ...

And because they are 2 different beasts, and because most people own already just two speakers HERE, i advocated for BACCH filters...

I did not do "theorycrafting" as you said ...And i dont need to listen to it to have an idea about what this will do even if the effect will change a lot between room and speakers choices or headphones and various recordings qualities choices even if my inner ears and HRTF measures are done ...Just doing simple mechanical imperfect experiment with crosstalk as i did is enough to have an idea about his importance ...

Anyway i apologize if i over exagerated some aspects of your post or interpreted them the wrong way...I am a passionnate dude and sometimes i reacted too much ...😊 To be precise i must write that often i reacted too much... 😊

And just a last precision, Choueiri is not an engineer but a physicist by formation ...

I will add that because you are very knowledgeable we are lucky that you participate in this forum... Then thank you for your patience with me ...

I wish you the best and a very merry christmas...🎄

mesch, good answer! 

“You do know that Choueiri himself has been a big spatial/object based audio/multichannel music connesieur in real life, right? as are many other known names in industry (A Jones, J Stoddard, Levinson, etc). The truth is...he can’t get anywhere near it because of all the patents held by Sony, Yamaha, Dolby, Auro, etc.”

I know for a fact that he considers multichannel to be as it is to be wrought with problems and plainly inferior. If there are going to be any arguments based on what Edgar believes let’s keep it real. I know this fact because I was standing right next to him when he said it. If you doubt me you can easily ask him for yourself through the Theoretica website. 

“He has to make a living as well and so he’s tailoring/marketing something to the 2 channel orthodoxy. You are getting stuck with his marketing lingo, as if it is a miracle like none other. It is fine for what it is (and that’s about it).”

He makes an excellent living as the head of the advanced propulsion department of Princeton University. BACCH is home s passion project. Your mischaracterization of him, his motives and his beliefs are pretty disgusting. 

“I will only say that his solution is not perfect nothing is but it is not a gadget improvised between other patented solutions... It is a bit more interesting ...”

You won’t say it but I will, the BACCH SP offers a near perfect rendering of spatial cues. The limiting factor is the source material. It’s easy to demonstrate. You can literally record a voice or musical instrument anywhere in the listening space with the BACCH in ear microphones -and compare the spatial accuracy that recording to the original source in it’s actual position anywhere in the room. The positioning is the n distinguishable if the system and room are good enough. What more could anyone ask than near perfect spatial reproduction?