Hans validating what the OP said.
Network optimization for serious streamers
In my ongoing experiments, now going on seven years, with network optimization for streaming I've discovered a number of optimizations that should work with any ethernet ISP.
I've tried a variety of ethernet cables, modems, routers, switches, FMC, ethernet filters, the following is what I've found to be most effective optimizations.
I'll start with ISP quality and speed. Recently I discovered 500mbps to be preferable to 300mbps. Along with upgrade in speed, modem capable of 1gb service replaced 600mbps, both have Broadcom chips and powered by same lps. Can't say which more responsible for improvement, speed or modem, presume speed has at least some role in ping time. As for ISP, there is importance in ISP server geographic location to you, shorter distances means lower ping time. For information as to how ping time affects jitter-https://www.fusionconnect.com/speed-test-plus/ping-jitter-test
Now for modems, modem close to audio system is most favorable, extending coax cable preferable to long ethernet cable. Coax more resistant to rfi and closer positioning to system means one can more easily afford top quality ethernet cable for modem to router connection. The modem should use Broadcom chipset vs. inferior Intel Puma, Broadcom chipset has lower jitter vs the Intel. Modem should be powered via external lps using quality DC and AC cables, lps to power conditioner for ultimate performance.
Following close positioning of modem to audio system, router should also be placed near modem in service of same advantage of making highest quality ethernet cable more affordable, in this case, modem to router and router to switches, streamers and NAS. Router should be powered with lps, this lps should be able to provide more amps than router requires in service of providing greater reliability, having lps with reserves of amperage means lps runs cooler, heat is enemy of reliability, longevity. As with modem, quality dc, ac cables and connection to power conditioner.
The next finding is new to me, provides very meaningful upgrade to streaming sound quality. Noise from wifi, injected both internally to router and externally with routers sitting close to audio systems has long been a concern to me. I have quality Trifield meter which measures rfi, router with operational wifi manufacture obscenely high levels of rfi, rfi is noise, noise is enemy of streaming at level we're talking about here. And its very likely the more wifi devices one has in home the higher the levels of rfi produced. This noise is then injected into following cables and streaming equipment. One may convince themselves FMC totally isolates this noise, and while correct, it doesn't mitigate the noise and masking going on within router. The only way to eliminate this noise is turning off wifi. And then, how to provide wifi for the many wifi devices we have at home? The answer is to connect a second router to the primary router. The primary router will only provide ethernet for streamers, switches and/or NAS in audio system, also for the second router. Second router provides wifi for the home, this scheme keeps vast majority of rfi out of audio system streaming chain. My own measurements find rfi significantly diminished in primary router, more than mulitiples of ten times lower vs wifi enabled. This was seamless install with the Netgear routers I'm using. There may also be value in provisioning higher quality routers. My new primary router, Netgear XR1000 is marketed as a gamer router, claims of lower ping time, latency, jitter vs other routers. Since my old router, Netgear RS7000 didn't have means to monitor ping time I can't provide evidence of this claim. Whatever the case, my XR1000 ping time test measurements are as follows, 25.35ms highest, 16.50ms lowest, this is A+ measurements against objective criteria. Ping time under load is download 25.93ms, upload 37.34ms, idle 17.31ms, this rates as A. My speed of 565gbps rates B grade, likely need 1gb service to get A here. At to how this all pertains to sound quality, adding up the upgrade in ISP speed and the off loading of wifi is without a doubt one of the most substantial, if not most substantial network upgrades I've experienced. While I long considered my setup as having a vanishing low noise floor, with this setup I heard a new level of vanishing if such a thing is possible. Even more astounding was a more analog like presentation, while I wasn't aware of even the slightest digital presentation prior, this upgrade certainly exposed it was indeed there. It seems logical to conclude there has been some lowering of jitter here.
And then we come to the ethernet filter. I suppose audiophile switches can be considered as one, then we have actual filters such as Network Acoustics Muon, my JCAT Net XE and others. I continue to believe these necessary even with the all measures above.
Optical conversion is also valid approach post router. While I found generic FMC somewhat effective, at this point I prefer ethernet. On the other hand I've not yet tried optimizing a fiber solution, for example two Sonore OpticalModules, both powered by lps, further upgraded with Finisar optical transceivers.
Assuming one has high resolving audio and streaming systems the above network optimizations should provide for substantial sound quality improvements. In my system, perception of performers in room has been taken to a new level of intimacy, meaning a more emotional connection to the performers and performance.
At this point, I consider network has been fully optimized, the only upgrade I'm aware of would be ISP upgrade to 1gb.
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- 470 posts total
I have been testing streamers and DACs the last 2 weeks. The way I compare 2 paths to music (streamer and/or DAC) is to use my Benchmark LA4 preamp with RCA or XLR pairs of sources. I then stream from ROON with GROUPED streaming option. This sends the same stream to 2 ROON endpoints. I can switch between the 2 inputs on my LA4 preamp to immediately hear both on the same passage of music. Not really scientific but I find it useful and have been able to easily hear difference. Especially, if I listen with my RAAL SR1a or CA-1a headphones. My recent conclusion was the Jon Swenson designed OpticalRendu is awesome and compares favorably to the streamer in the Lumin X1 fibre. I preferred the OpticalRendu by a bit feeling it sounded a bit more refined. I also found that the previously unimpressive Jon Swenson designed EtherRegen was actually very useful as an FMC connected to my network switch. Then fibre from the EtherRegen to either the Lumin X1 or OpticalRendu . So, after hearing and comparing streamers and DACs I bought into the snake oil pitch. Infact, Swenson suggested in a paper or post to use a FMC in front of fibre. I was going to sell the EtherRegen but I am glad I kept it to try in front of the fibre. BTW - my streaming setup uses Powerline adapters for 2 rooms of 4 rooms, a cheapo computer for ROON Core, and non-audiophile network switches. This can lead to some crap sound, and it did. My main approach to tackle my non-audiophile network was to use fibre and LPS on the Rendu's. It has worked amazingly; I am not touching this setup anymore. |
The idea of a well-engineered streamer made with quality parts doing a good job of fixing networking problems makes sense to me. Unfortunately, those products are usually well out of my price range, leaving me to focus on low-cost tweaks discussed here and elsewhere. I've been spending some time on whatsthebest forum since my last post. Looks like there's some agreement over there that the Arris SB8200 Surfboard is the best performing modem at a reasonable price. My ISP-supplied modem is an Arris that has 3.1 DOCSIS like the surfboard and doesn't show up on the bad modem list you may have seen. So I'm sticking with it. There's also some consensus on the Ubiquity EdgeRouter X as a the preferred stand-alone router. Cheap, better sounding than most any alternative (reportedly), has the option to deploy virtual LAN networks that my current TP Link AX50 does not, and ethernet ports can be turned on and off. I have one on order and plan to set the AX50 in access point mode to serve wifi to the rest of my house in a separate box. Hoping the DX Engineering IsoPlus filters do enough job of isolating. Didn't think of controlling Roon from my laptop plugged into the EtherRegen (rest of network rig in another room) during the few times the kids aren't online and I can shut the wifi down (thanks @sns). Still have some hesitation about leaving the Cisco 2960 switch in the chain between the router and the ER, done primarily to use its SFP that gets fiber in the chain. There is an EdgeRouter model that has an SFP port that would allow me to cut the Cisco out altogether, in case the Cisco's SFP is as noisy as suggested and three switches aren't better than two (I believe Uptone's John Swenson said more switches can be better if upstream noise is well-minimized ). Like with the other tweaks I've made, will have to listen and see. I wish I had more money and time to buy, listen, sell, and buy again. Contributors in forums like these have really helped me close those capacity gaps with thoughtful information that's allowed me to learn a ton and make informed decisions about changes to my system that have it sounding really good right now. Deeply appreciative for that. |
@coppy777 always comes down to that huh? Why? My system is plenty resolving and perfect for my residence.
That’s not the issue you describe, you has a real audible issue that by your own statements none of these “audiophile” Ethernet products did anything to fix, even though that is their claim to fame. That is the issue at large, and my exact point. now your actual issue, if you put a strong radio right next to sensitive equipment, you can expect issues. However, two interesting things, your expensive equipment picked up a tick and a background noise. By moving the Eero away, you proved that the Ethernet components did not introduce the noise, rather, it was picked up directly by the equipment. To me, the ticks would come from the DAC, and the background noise would come from the tubes, just a guess though. |
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