Speaker Recommendation Help Please.


Hello,

I  am hoping to get some advice.

First, I'm in Canada so when I talk budgets I will use gear, not numbers, as that is probably the best way to remove the "currency" factor ($100 USD is very different than $100 CAD, but a NAD M33 is the same item on both sides of the border). 

Second, I actually have pretty minimal experience with speakers.  I was an avid headphone listener for years as I used to live in a condo so speakers, due to space and neighbours, was not an option.  I've owned most TOTL headphones - HD800, Focal Utopia, LCD4, Abyss, Code-X, SR-009/007, etc.  

Third, I'm looking at speakers for now, only.  An amp and source will come later so let's ignore it for now entirely please.  Assume whatever speaker I end up with, I will get an appropriate amp.  I am trying to keep this as focused as possible and I have to start somewhere, and I've decided the speakers are the place.  If I have a budget of $X, I am happy to spend $X on speakers and wait to buy an amp rather than spending $0.5X on speakers and $0.5X on an amp today.

Fourth, some information about my listening preferences...  People ask, "what kind of music do you like".  Well, as Justice Stewart might say, I can't define it but when I hear it, I know it.  I'm pretty varied and probably listen to much of the same stuff every audiophile does.  I don't listen to a lot of classical, chamber, techno, EDM, rap or country.  Take whatever is left, and that's probably me.  I love detail - It's what I love about the HD800 and Utopia's - there is so much nuance, air and separation.  I love that.  I also love texture, which is why I love the LCD4's.  The resonance of a guitar body, the natural tone of a voice.  And I love slam...  This is my guilty pleasure.  I used to drive my Abyss with a PassLabs INT-30A (30 watts of Class A into headphones) and you could almost feel the impact in your chest.  If you need more detail, or have specific questions about any of this, please let me know.

Fifth, my room is the biggest small room there is (well, not really).  The speakers on going on an 13 foot wall (that extends out to about 60 feet) and the room is 28 feet deep.  The speakers can only be about 12-14 inches from the back wall (I have a wife and it's our family room) and my ears are about 10 feet from the speaker wall.  Oh, and the ceilings are 12 feet high.  Here's my crummy drawing of the room.  Each square is one foot by one foot:

 

(Hopefully you can read all that).

 

The speakers are going on the left side and there is fireplace in between.  Behind the couch is the kitchen and, if you are sitting on the couch, to your left, it opens up to the font of the house.  Here's what is actually looks like and the new speaker will go where the current ones are:

 

 

(The speakers are Paradigm Active 20's for those playing at home)

To the right is the back of the home which is mostly glass.

Now, as for options.  I don't love the signature of the Paradigms.  They have a  "dark" sound and have a recessed mids.  What I call an "American sound".  I am looking for something more neutral or even slightly warm.  

Locally, there is a pair of Sophia V1's which is my current front runner.  I think they will give me everything I am after with the right amp but they are a little big.  They are also my #1 choice due to price.  I worry about placement and that being a big problem.

I am also considering Wilson SabrinaX's,.  I worry the Sabarina's may be too small sounding for the room (not that I need to fill it, and I don't listen loud), but I love the foot print of them.  Also, because they are Wilson, I again worry about placement.

Next would be Sonus Faber Guarneri Traditions.  I think I would have end up adding a sub down the road which technically makes them the biggest option (by foot print).  I LOVE the look of them.  I also would consider Serafinos if I don't need a but I feel like we are getting into next level stuff with those so everything, like the amp budget has to climb as well.  Right now, my top choice amp for all options is a Hegel H390 or H590 so you get an ideal of budget.  Tubes aren't an option.

Next would be Focal Sopra 2's.  Visually, these are the bottom the list for me personally, but I think they are a bit of a middle ground sonically between the Sabrina's and GT's...  

I am going to listen to all 4 speakers this week.  

My question is which of the 4 would work best in my room given the placement restrictions?  The Sophia's may be a no brainer here because of the price and that they are second hand so they have already depreciated so I could buy them and change to another option later.  Are their others that you would strongly suggest?  Maggies aren't an option due to looks.  Magico isn't an option either.  

Thank you for reading,

-Paul

bigfatpaulie

I would be tempted to use some high quality monitor speakers that are sealed or down firing as others have suggested (no rear ports).  Place a rug at the couch and some possible room treatments.  I prefer diffusors rather than panels.  Viscoustic has some nice looking options.  Speakers as mentioned would be the Fyne or the Canadian company Greshman audio.

Sounds like you are in a situation where a mistake can be a frustrating and costly situation.

A couple of things I would suggest. Aim for 92db+ efficiency. You’ll, more often than not, hear detail and nuance wih low volume listening. Going from 88db to 93db didn’t change the overall quality or loudness of the music for me...but it changed the ’ease’ of expression across all volume levels. Very efficient speakers will give you more amplifier choices down the road.

Consider speakers that are as phase coherent as possible. Most 3 way systems don’t image as well as most 2 way systems. 2 way systems don’t image as well as full range. This is a blanket statement and at your price point, the excellent crossover systems will not give much away.

My 88db Salks sounded amazing to me but going to 93db Tannoys made me want to listen to my entire record collection again to see what I’d been missing. I wasn’t prepared for how much of a difference that change made. Both speakers threw out a big and deep soundstage.

One thing you must do: get a big rug. I mean something that swallows the coffee table and both couches in one gulp. I bought a 100% wool Persian rug. It sits on a proper thick (3/8") felt underlay. I have dogs and a high quality rug is almost as indestructible as it is beautiful. But, more importantly, it made a HUGE acoustic improvement. Go big with the rug! Persian, Turkish, Indian...Canadian but get something thick and soft that will offset all the hard and shiny surfaces you have going. Softening the first 1/3 of your listening area will make the most difference.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello,

I have usually preferred the sound of closed box (infinite baffle) speakers and so now own KLH5 for that reason.  I suggest you should try them.  The imaging is good, very good, for a three-way.  They can be placed reasonably close to the rear wall.  My room is somewhat like yours and I have similar issues, more than half the space is a kitchen/diner with almost no soft furnishings.  I listened to some Klipsch Fortes that sounded so amazing I bought them.. They lasted one week and then had to go back, too shouty by far in my bright room.  The KLH5 bass is very natural, however, be warned, due to room nodes you will get good bass sound in one place and then a completely different sound just a few feet away.  Unless you can treat the room there is not much technical equipment (i.e. none) that can fix that problem in the signal chain.  Sitting close and keeping the volume down might be a good plan after all.  I hope you find this helpful.

and I strongly agree to get a big heavy rug on the floor in front of the speakers.