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Speaker Recommendation Help Please.

Hello,

I  am hoping to get some advice.

First, I'm in Canada so when I talk budgets I will use gear, not numbers, as that is probably the best way to remove the "currency" factor ($100 USD is very different than $100 CAD, but a NAD M33 is the same item on both sides of the border). 

Second, I actually have pretty minimal experience with speakers.  I was an avid headphone listener for years as I used to live in a condo so speakers, due to space and neighbours, was not an option.  I've owned most TOTL headphones - HD800, Focal Utopia, LCD4, Abyss, Code-X, SR-009/007, etc.  

Third, I'm looking at speakers for now, only.  An amp and source will come later so let's ignore it for now entirely please.  Assume whatever speaker I end up with, I will get an appropriate amp.  I am trying to keep this as focused as possible and I have to start somewhere, and I've decided the speakers are the place.  If I have a budget of $X, I am happy to spend $X on speakers and wait to buy an amp rather than spending $0.5X on speakers and $0.5X on an amp today.

Fourth, some information about my listening preferences...  People ask, "what kind of music do you like".  Well, as Justice Stewart might say, I can't define it but when I hear it, I know it.  I'm pretty varied and probably listen to much of the same stuff every audiophile does.  I don't listen to a lot of classical, chamber, techno, EDM, rap or country.  Take whatever is left, and that's probably me.  I love detail - It's what I love about the HD800 and Utopia's - there is so much nuance, air and separation.  I love that.  I also love texture, which is why I love the LCD4's.  The resonance of a guitar body, the natural tone of a voice.  And I love slam...  This is my guilty pleasure.  I used to drive my Abyss with a PassLabs INT-30A (30 watts of Class A into headphones) and you could almost feel the impact in your chest.  If you need more detail, or have specific questions about any of this, please let me know.

Fifth, my room is the biggest small room there is (well, not really).  The speakers on going on an 13 foot wall (that extends out to about 60 feet) and the room is 28 feet deep.  The speakers can only be about 12-14 inches from the back wall (I have a wife and it's our family room) and my ears are about 10 feet from the speaker wall.  Oh, and the ceilings are 12 feet high.  Here's my crummy drawing of the room.  Each square is one foot by one foot:

 

(Hopefully you can read all that).

 

The speakers are going on the left side and there is fireplace in between.  Behind the couch is the kitchen and, if you are sitting on the couch, to your left, it opens up to the font of the house.  Here's what is actually looks like and the new speaker will go where the current ones are:

 

 

(The speakers are Paradigm Active 20's for those playing at home)

To the right is the back of the home which is mostly glass.

Now, as for options.  I don't love the signature of the Paradigms.  They have a  "dark" sound and have a recessed mids.  What I call an "American sound".  I am looking for something more neutral or even slightly warm.  

Locally, there is a pair of Sophia V1's which is my current front runner.  I think they will give me everything I am after with the right amp but they are a little big.  They are also my #1 choice due to price.  I worry about placement and that being a big problem.

I am also considering Wilson SabrinaX's,.  I worry the Sabarina's may be too small sounding for the room (not that I need to fill it, and I don't listen loud), but I love the foot print of them.  Also, because they are Wilson, I again worry about placement.

Next would be Sonus Faber Guarneri Traditions.  I think I would have end up adding a sub down the road which technically makes them the biggest option (by foot print).  I LOVE the look of them.  I also would consider Serafinos if I don't need a but I feel like we are getting into next level stuff with those so everything, like the amp budget has to climb as well.  Right now, my top choice amp for all options is a Hegel H390 or H590 so you get an ideal of budget.  Tubes aren't an option.

Next would be Focal Sopra 2's.  Visually, these are the bottom the list for me personally, but I think they are a bit of a middle ground sonically between the Sabrina's and GT's...  

I am going to listen to all 4 speakers this week.  

My question is which of the 4 would work best in my room given the placement restrictions?  The Sophia's may be a no brainer here because of the price and that they are second hand so they have already depreciated so I could buy them and change to another option later.  Are their others that you would strongly suggest?  Maggies aren't an option due to looks.  Magico isn't an option either.  

Thank you for reading,

-Paul

bigfatpaulie
audiodwebe's avatar
audiodwebe
212 posts
 

I think, unfortunately, with your room layout the only way you’re going to get anywhere near great sound would be to listen to something in the near field to account for the vast openness to the left and glass wall to the immediate right of your speakers.

Totems work well close to the wall.  And a subwoofer or two for the slam you’re looking for.

I don’t think you’re going to get anything near the sound you get with your cans, though, because your selection of headphones is awesome!

Good luck with your speaker selection.

Post removed 
auxinput
2,920 posts
 

I see lot's of recommendations of what you "should" do, such as

- pull out the speakers from the wall

- add a bunch of acoustic treatment and bass traps

 

These are all "perfect world" recommendations and tend to be "knee-jerk" responses without really paying attention to what the OP's situation really is.

I have been in large open weird rooms similar to what bigfatpaulie has.  I will say that acoustic treatments can actually make things worse sometimes and need to be done one step at a time.  Sometimes, a particular bass trap or acoustic panel can ruin the sound (yes, I have experience with this).  I had a room almost exactly like his and put acoustic panels on the front wall between the speakers - and it completely ruined the sound; made it anemic and totally weak.  So, if you are doing acoustic treatments, do one at a time and listen carefully.

Second thing is the speaker placement.  Because you are having to put the speakers very close to the wall, I would highly recommend looking for speakers that are either sealed box or have a FRONT vent port for the bass.  Speakers with a rear vent will not work very well when placed that close to the wall.

Now on to the speakers you mentioned.  Wilson speakers are generally very revealing and very fast responding.  They tend to have a bright harsh edge with some equipment because they are so fast and require special consideration when you choose preamp/amp/cables.  I have heard Wilsons sound excellent with McIntosh and some tube amps, but they definitely sound harsh/bright and fatiguing with some of the higher resolution equipment.  Be mindful of this if you are looking at Wilson.  The Sophia 1 have aluminum woofers and titanium dome tweeter, which are definitely going to sound bright.  The newer generations typically use Scanspeak drivers, which are also bright and fast responding.

I have always loved Sonus Faber speakers.  They are very natual sounding and also very neutral sounding.  They sound great with many different amps/preamps and they are more forgiving to bad electronics/cables.  Excellent choice.  However, the tweeters are soft-dome which are nice but do not have as much resolution/transparency in the very high frequencies.  This means they are not as detailed or revealing as other speakers with different tweeters.  They are still not a bad choice.

The Focal speakers are also completely different.  They are extremely clean sounding.  But in my opinion, they are so clean sounding that they lack texture and "grit" for all the different tones and resonances.  They can also sound thin in the midrange with a lot of systems.  You really have to hear the speaker to decide if you like this type of sound.

Another speaker that you could potentially look at are the Revel PerformaBe series.  They are very high resolution but without the harsh edge of wilson and have good bass with a front port.   At this point, we will probably have another 5-10 different speaker recommendations because everybody thinks their speakers are the "best".  I always try to describe how a speaker sounds instead of trying to tell you what speaker I think you should get, lol.

auxinput
2,920 posts
 

A couple more comments.

The one acoustic treatment that I would actually recommend firmly in your room is to get a very large and thick area rug to put on the floor in front of the speakers between the speakers and the "listening couch". 

Second, if you are seriously considering the Focal speakers, I would recommend looking for a full Class A amp - think Pass Labs XA series (your INT-30A is an example), or even Parasound JC1 run at high-bias Class A mode.  You need this type of amp to get any midrange body (else it will tend to sound very thin in the midrange).

auxinput
2,920 posts
 

heh, I can't help commenting more.  I see several people have recommended Klipsch speakers (i.e. K-Horns, Heresy, Cornwall).  These are very unique speakers.  They are very lively sounding and can be extremely fun to listen to (especially if it's your first time hearing them).  However--- they are horn loaded midrange and tweeter.  Because of this, they have an echo/reverberation effect on the mids/highs that sort of sound like your are listening to a live performance in a huge hall (with the echo/reverberation).  They also have a slightly "tangy" flavor to the sound.  It is a very "vintage" type of sound.  Because you have so many hard surfaces in your room, I would be concerned that the reflections and the horns will cause the high frequencies to become a mess. 

Also, you really need to "love" this type of sound because you will be hearing it all the time.  This is not a bad thing if that is the type of sound you are after, but you could become really tired of this signature after a short while if you don't "love" it. lol.

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