Just updated my virtual system

There’s a point I wanted to make about having a dedicated audiophile streamer for audio.

I don’t like them for a number of reasons

• Cost
• Reliability
• Lack of continuous improvement / upgrades will eventually end
• Vendor lock-in on hardware, UI and even the music library

I’ve been using Roon with a mini x86 server as the core and Raspberry Pi 4 as the end point. I’ve never had the need to shut them down and call a dealer or even reset them. My mini PC is about 12 years old, so the fan on the power supply started giving out. $79 later and I got a replacement. While replacing it I accidentally shorted the disk drive (with an actual spinner inside) which was also at least that old. $89 for 1 TB. Imagine any streamer charging less than a grand for a 1TB internal disk. 🤣. Reinstall Linux, install Roon, restore my music from back up, which took the longest amount of time, and bam. I’m back.

My subscription to Roon ensures that the software is constantly upgraded and keeps up with the latest audio formats and services (well, except Amazon music). Using Ubuntu LTS ensures that I get the latest OS and security patches until 2025.

Honestly I trust Roon will be around for at least a decade.  I don't trust any of the streamer vendors to be around that long, to constantly improve the feature and service set or to ensure my current hardware is compatible with the next release.  It's nearly impossible for a hardware vendor to put the same kind of effort into their software as Roon can.  Also, I really like Roon.

I suppose if I put together a mini PC Roon core and Pi 4 again I’d probably be out $600 vs. say $3k minimum for commercial offerings. Sorry that’s a jump I can’t make. Partly the DIY in me and partly the frugal.

I am however looking for a DAC with built in Roon endpoint. Not core. I’m tempted by the Mytek Manhattan II as well as the Bricasti but have heard neither so far.

PC + Raspberry Pi 4 + Roon as server, streamer, and library management software. Gotcha. 

I resonate with your argument against the business model of HiFi streamer manufactures. As soon as we introduce software into hardware, its shelf-life diminishes. AVR's are a good case in point. Since 2015, video standards have quickly evolved from 1080p to 4k, then HDR, and now we have forking HDR standards of HDR 10 and Dolby Vision, and recently 4k at 120Hz became a thing. Just like the audio chain, to have the video features you want, every piece in the video chain has to be compatible: video streamer, HDMI cables, AVR, and TV. If one of those is behind, you lack some feature. For now, I'm content with 4k 60Hz, base level HDR, and chroma subsampling of 4:2:0. It's not the latest and greatest, but it's good enough for the major streaming services. Plus, being on the cutting edge is costly.  

Besides the points you made, I would point to their revenue model as the culprit: one-off streamer sales are not likely to support continuous software development. When sharing my iFi Zen Stream ($400) streamer with other audio folks, the biggest criticism was the lack of amazing library management software. That is, consumers seem to want convenience, high quality, and a low price--in business, it's usually a pick two of the three. 

If I do stick with Roon (plus Qobuz and Tidal) instead of Apple Music, I'll put together a server that I leave always on. Having to walk to another room and boot up my main computer just to listen to music isn't convenient enough. And if I go with a NAS, I might be able to also store and stream movies too, which is a lot cheaper than Kaleidescape. But I have to see if Plex and Roon can be used together. 

@erik_squires
How do you feel about the idea of purpose built streamer hardware? I think they are worth considering, and enough audio folks say that the SQ does improve with purpose built streamers. Is your position that nothing upstream from the DAC makes enough of a difference to justify the cost? I haven’t yet compared the Zen Stream to a Raspberry Pi, but that could be interesting.

On another note, how do you feel about combining video and audio streamers? My understanding is that the consensus with audio folks with combined HT and stereo systems is to at least bypass the HT preamp when listening to stereo music. But you went a step further with a HiFi DAC too.

With your current setup, combining the A/V streamer only looks possible via toslink--either out of the TV directly or out of the receiver to your DAC. But toslink won’t work for you since you have DSD files.

Another option for combining A&V streamers, might be with an Nvidia Shield TV Pro. Based on this forum page, it looks like the Shield now supports audio out from its USB port. I use an Nvidia Shield TV Pro in my home theater room, and I know that the Shield does show up in Roon as a possible end point, but I haven’t tried to send audio out from the Shield’s USB since my stereo system is in a different room. And, as far as hardware going obsolete, Nvidia has kept it’s Shield TV streamers relevant for a surprisingly long time. Last I checked, Nvidia is still supporting its 2015, 2017, and 2019 Shield versions. Finally, as an AI company, Nvidia may delve into AI audio upsampling one day if enough users identify the use case to the company.  

How do you feel about the idea of purpose built streamer hardware?

Well, as I wrote the issue is one of a combination of frugality and DIY.  If I didn't work with Linux every day anyway putting together my own streamer probably wouldn't be such an obvious answer.  I have also had a Logitech Squeezebox touch for a long time and it's been great.  Nothing else since has the combination of high performance, low cost, ease of use, and aesthetically attractive features.  I think it's that I am stuck in that kind of price envelope.  When the Squeezebox touch came out I was rooting for a new era of streaming music that was < $1,000. 

I think they are worth considering, and enough audio folks say that the SQ does improve with purpose built streamers. Is your position that nothing upstream from the DAC makes enough of a difference to justify the cost?

My position is that I don't want to pay $3,000 or more for something that is a glorified Logitech Squeezebox, and have a tough time jumping into a closed ecosystem. Oh, almost forgot.  Some streamers are iPhone only.  I'm Android only as my Lord Orisirs intended.

With your current setup, combining the A/V streamer only looks possible via toslink--either out of the TV directly or out of the receiver to your DAC. But toslink won’t work for you since you have DSD files.

Honestly haven't thought that far ahead for integration.  I mean, why would I want to combine them? Different usage patterns and UIs.  If I was going to do that I'd combine my AVR and stereo integrated, and I'm absolutely not doing that.  Why?  Because I love the stereo sound.  I also want the full modern 4k / DTS / Dolby decoding features including Dolby Vision and HDR.