+1 oldhvymec
Help me tame my out of control bass
Hey all,
Hoping to get some advice on how to tame what appear to be some pretty bad room modes. See my system here:
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8800
I’m in a bit of a pickle for a few reasons. First, my NY apartment is on the small side and requires me to set up on the long wall with the listening position against the opposite wall. On top of that I upgraded to my dream speakers, Egglestonworks Kivas. They sound amazing but they’re big and have a lot of low end reach. The combination of these two factors leads to the waterfall you see in my system - a pretty massive bump in low end, particularly at 40-44hz and from 60-70hz.
There’s also a huge bump at 120hz, but I don’t understand how that one is possible. I think that might be a measurement or microphone error - I don’t hear that at all and it doesn’t go away even when I EQ 120hz out completely, but maybe it’s a resonance?
Things I’ve tried so far, each with modest success:
- Plugging the ports gave me about a -5db reduction in the trouble spots (all measurements are with the port blocked)
- I don’t have a ton of placement flexibility but moving them back from their original position gained me about a -3dB reduction in bass
- I added a pair of 5.5” thick GIK bass traps, but they didn’t do much that I’m seeing in the measurements. Maybe a -1-2dB reduction, tops. They honestly helped more with the mids and highs.
- Convolution curve in Roon - this works the best, but doesn’t solve the problem for home theater or vinyl
I’m pretty stumped as to what else I can do. I think that the amount of bass traps needed to fix this is more than my marriage can withstand. I’m considering the PSI AVAA active bass traps, but only if I can do a home trial of them first to see if they’ll actually help - I worry this 8-10dB bump I’m seeing will be too much for even a pair of those. I could get a DIRAC processor from miniDSP and that would at least then work for all digital sources. Vinyl is mostly not a problem since this is so low and most of my vinyl is rock and jazz.
Any other ideas? Rolling tubes that have less bass? Are there any less expensive EQs with digital in and out that I could use as an alternative to the DIRAC for home theater only?
Hoping to get some advice on how to tame what appear to be some pretty bad room modes. See my system here:
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8800
I’m in a bit of a pickle for a few reasons. First, my NY apartment is on the small side and requires me to set up on the long wall with the listening position against the opposite wall. On top of that I upgraded to my dream speakers, Egglestonworks Kivas. They sound amazing but they’re big and have a lot of low end reach. The combination of these two factors leads to the waterfall you see in my system - a pretty massive bump in low end, particularly at 40-44hz and from 60-70hz.
There’s also a huge bump at 120hz, but I don’t understand how that one is possible. I think that might be a measurement or microphone error - I don’t hear that at all and it doesn’t go away even when I EQ 120hz out completely, but maybe it’s a resonance?
Things I’ve tried so far, each with modest success:
- Plugging the ports gave me about a -5db reduction in the trouble spots (all measurements are with the port blocked)
- I don’t have a ton of placement flexibility but moving them back from their original position gained me about a -3dB reduction in bass
- I added a pair of 5.5” thick GIK bass traps, but they didn’t do much that I’m seeing in the measurements. Maybe a -1-2dB reduction, tops. They honestly helped more with the mids and highs.
- Convolution curve in Roon - this works the best, but doesn’t solve the problem for home theater or vinyl
I’m pretty stumped as to what else I can do. I think that the amount of bass traps needed to fix this is more than my marriage can withstand. I’m considering the PSI AVAA active bass traps, but only if I can do a home trial of them first to see if they’ll actually help - I worry this 8-10dB bump I’m seeing will be too much for even a pair of those. I could get a DIRAC processor from miniDSP and that would at least then work for all digital sources. Vinyl is mostly not a problem since this is so low and most of my vinyl is rock and jazz.
Any other ideas? Rolling tubes that have less bass? Are there any less expensive EQs with digital in and out that I could use as an alternative to the DIRAC for home theater only?
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- 59 posts total
@hudsonhawk, welcome to the world of impulse measurement. It is not just the troughs but the peaks also. By 20 Hz you have lost almost 25 dB. Sonically troughs exaggerate the peaks! You are hearing 40 and 50 Hz more because 38 and 47 Hz are missing. You can not just cut the peaks. You have to boost the troughs also. I assume your listening position is forced up against the opposite wall which is going to make this worse. Take measurements elsewhere in the room. As you have noticed bass traps do not work. They are acting as diffusers of higher frequencies. I get castrated for this opinion all the time. They are a complete waste of money. Made the same mistake myself. Check out my system page and you will see this is the voice of experience talking. Many systems are worse than yours! You were headed in the right direction but forget about Dirac. Check out the DEQX Premate, the Anthem STR preamp and finally the Trinnov Amethyst. All of these units will totally fix your problem. If my TacT were to go down I would get the Amethyst. The Amethyst also has a built in phono section. All three units are much more comprehensive than a "mini DSP." You have a nice system it deserves better. It will sound so much better you will wind up like me digitizing your turntable. You have a beautiful turntable. Nice choice, fully suspended, great tonearm. Please get it a dust cover! |
Try miking your speakers like 1' away and see if your 120 Hz bump is still there. If so, it may be a microphone artifact@erik_squires Yep, still there even mic’d directly in front of the speaker. So to oldhvymec‘s point it could be a crossover issue or a mic artefact like you said. Unlike the other ringing in the waterfall I’m not hearing it, so I’m inclined to think it’s a mic artefact. Would love to do the same with bass traps but I think I’m already pushing my wife’s tolerance for panels. @oldhvymec to your point, pulling them out does reduce the bass suck, but makes the peaks greater and makes the midrange less flat. Here’s an SPL graph of them pulled out (red) vs their current position closer to the wall (orange): https://www.dropbox.com/s/4rd8y9uy7jw12lb/Screen%20Shot%202021-02-22%20at%2010.06.16%20AM.png?dl=0 I have 10 GIK panels in the room right now, in retrospect the mistake I made was getting too many 2” panels and not doing enough bass traps or ceiling panels. They’re crazy expensive but one of the things that appeals to me about the PSI AVAA is that they’re easily moved and don’t require a ton of work to install. The tough thing about renting is not wanting to overinvest in a solution for your current place, in fact our lease is up in a few months and we’re currently considering moving. I’m tempted to just to get a better room for my stereo, where I won’t need to have the LP be against a wall... Great suggestions all, thanks for the thoughts. |
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- 59 posts total