Truly Balanced Cheaper Preamplifiers?

There perhaps needs to be clarity and (dare I say) agreement over what 'truly balanced' actually is, circuitwise.  There seems to be different opinions.

Recently I have contributed to a debate concerning the Audio Research Ref Phono 3SE.  This is described by AR as 'fully balanced'.  Yet a glance at the back plate reveals phono inputs only.

When AR were questioned as to how the amplifier can be fully balanced, they said:

 The REF Phono 3SE does not have balanced inputs. We create a balanced signal after the inputs using a phase inverter. What turntable are you using that has balanced outputs? The outputs of the Phono 3SE are balanced and will feed your line stage with a balanced signal, pin two is positive, pin 3 is negative, and pin one is ground.
---------------------------------------------
Summary: The phase inverter does not increase the gain of the unit, it simply maintains a balance signal through the circuitry. This does provide CMR but we have no published specs on that to share.
---------------------------------------------
Summary: The REF Phono 3 uses a phase inverter circuit which converts the single ended inputs to balanced so the unit is fully balanced through the unit at at the XLR outputs

All very strange.

'The Ref Phono 3SE does not have balanced inputs'.
Why not?  Many of AR's other pre-amps have balanced inputs using XLRs.   What magic is the ;phase inverter circuit' and even if it works, why bother?

'What turntable are you using that has balanced outputs?'
Very strange response, entirely off-message. Turntables don't have 'outputs'. At this level everyone uses separates. The output is from the cartridge and can be connected balanced or not, at choice. I am afraid the responder is a marketing man, not an engineer, and knows little.

So is this amp 'fully balanced' or not?
Best to steer clear. As I did, and bought the vdH Grail SB that can be run fully balanced or single ended - has to be one or the other from input to output.

Can someone help please.  AR don't seem to be able to.

IMO AR is not the same company since Mr Johnson left the stage.  Pity.

OP, stay the course. You're on the right track. Those here questioning simply are ignorant of the sonic benefits by having a fully dif balanced system
Recently Paul McGowan put out a YTV which can help

If $$$ is tight you could get a Parasound 6 and use the XLR circuit only, then sell it when funds allow you to upgrade

TMR has a Audio Alchemy DDP-1 + PS 5 at <$1300. It's a fantastic pre Stereophile reviewed it in March 2000ish. I have one


hth

Greg, the PS Audio-Gain Cell DAC is balanced as well as others in the line, 1600 new and can trade in older equipment to lower cost.

Gustard p26 ... probably the highest return for dollar spent

Ive owned a lot of PS Audio kit over the decades. I still have a GCC 250 from when it first came out ~ 15 years ago that powers my video system


I bought the M700s and the Gain Cell dac/pre. It lacked soul and had no outboard power supply to flesh it out.


hth