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Help me understand "the swarm" in the broader audiophile world

I'm still fairly new out here and am curious about this Swarm thing. I've never owned a subwoofer but I find reading about them--placement, room treatments, nodes, the crawl, etc--fascinating. I'm interested in the concept of the Swarm and the DEBRA systems, and I have a very specific question. The few times I've been in high-end, audiophile stores and asked about the concept of the Swarm, I've tended to get some eye-rolling. They're selling single or paired subwoofers that individually often cost more and sometimes much more than a quartet of inexpensive, modest subs. The same thing can be said for many speaker companies that make both speakers and subs; it's not like I see Vandersteen embracing the use of four Sub 3's. 

My question is this: do in fact high-end stores embrace the concept of multiple, inexpensive subs? If not, cynicism aside, why not? Or why doesn't Vandersteen or JL or REL and so on design their own swarm? For those out here who love multiple subs, is it a niche thing? Is it a certain kind of sound that is appealing to certain ears? The true believers proselytize with such zeal that I find it intriguing and even convincing, and yet it's obviously a minority of listeners who do it, even those who have dedicated listening rooms. (I'm talking about the concept of four+ subs, mixed and matched, etc. I know plenty of folks who embrace two subs. And I may be wrong about all my assumptions here--really.)

Now, one favor, respectfully: I understand the concept and don't need to be convinced of why it's great. That's all over literally every post on this forum that mentions the word "sub." I'm really interested in why, as far as I can tell, stores and speaker companies (and maybe most audiophile review sites?) mostly don't go for it--and why, for that matter, many audiophiles don't either (putting aside the obvious reason of room limits). Other than room limitations, why would anyone buy a single JL or REL or Vandy sub when you could spend less and get ... the swarm? 


northman
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Duke has a really good post somewhere that addresses a lot of these same questions. Easiest way to find it is just look through all posts by audiokinesis.

For myself, I think you answered your own question.
why would anyone buy a single JL or REL or Vandy sub when you could spend less and get ... the swarm?
This is indeed the million dollar question. Surely no one with the room, who takes the time to compare, would ever choose anything else. No one has. No one ever will. The difference is so night and day that Duke had one customer with a $30k subwoofer budget decide to buy the Swarm. Not even a $30k sub can match a $3k Swarm.

So there’s your answer. They make a whole lot more money selling people on the idea of one sub being the answer. If you take the cynical approach, which I do, then it would be even dumber for them to sell a DBA. Because since we all know no one or two subs can ever touch a DBA, then not only do the high-end dealers make money selling you the one sub that can’t work, they get to sell you another. And another. And another. And EQ. And more amps. And room treatments.

There’s simply way more money to be made selling audiophiles things that don’t work than things that do.

Especially if they first sell you on a good story. Which since you already know DBA works, and yet is not widely adopted, then you know how good they are at selling audiophiles on stories.

And that’s the real answer to your question. Why would anyone buy a sub? They don’t. They buy a story.
hsw
37 posts
 
REL seems to be moving more into the multiple sub arena with their stackable S line. The interviews with John Hunter suggest that they believe in bass originating from different points in space, including height.
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
3,624 posts
 
as a dealer with 30+ Years experience i love to talk about the application  of real world solutions

A swarm would sound better than one or two subs most people do nothave the room or desire to have 4 subwoofer boxes in the room along with a pair of main loud speakers
So the reality is swarms almost never come up based on practicality vs performance

In fact we are now importing a line of suberb subwoofers from the uk that are better than Rel and are the ideal partner for a monitor as the subwoofers that are tall enough to allow a high end monitor to sit on top of the wooofers   https://mjacoustics.co.uk/kensington

https://mjacoustics.co.uk/reference-series-list/reference-1-mk4/

Dave and troy
Audio intellect
Us importer Mj acoustics




onhwy61's avatar
onhwy61
5,148 posts
 
Many of the issues addressed by multi-subwoofer setups are also addressed by dipole bass designs.  Dipole systems may not go as deep, but they can be more accurate.
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