6119, thanks for your follow up. Do you have any analog recordings on LP; would appreciate knowing your reactions to string sound on a good LP recorded in analog. Thanks.
the sound of massed violins in classical orchestral recordings
why do massed violins have this sort of gritty sandpapery reverberation in classical orchestral recordings?even in some sections of a piece, when the violins are playing softly in the background, you hear that gritty overtone more than the melody.when I listen to the Houston symphony in Jones Hall,sitting fourth row, facing the violin section, I don't hear that sound.I have three systems { two of them mid-fi ] and I hear the same thing-even with headphones.in all instances, the other parts of the orchestra are clear. my main system : Vanalistine Trancendence 10 tube preamp,a 35 year old solid state Proton D1200 amp, [have tried NAD,Project, Musical Fidelity amps--they don't sound any better],Onkyo dx7555 CD player [Stereophile class B],and Project Carbon turntable with Grado Black 2 cartridge [ the Ortophon Red was too bright ] through Magnepan MG12/QR speakers.Tried a highly regarded Elac speaker--no change as far as the violins go, but way inferior to those dramatic Maggies.So, there you have it. Is it the equipment? Is the state of the art not up to recording violins? Is it me? [its o.k.-I can take it}. In closing,a couple of years ago,I had phone conversation with a well known person associated with a major speaker company about this. His response :[ paraphrased ] Violins are a problem--don't like 'em. Any input will be appreciated. Thanks.
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Very interesting thread. And I have to agree: massed violins, for whatever reason (millercarbon and frogman have offered possible explanations) are very hard to reproduce. I play cello, and my daughter plays violin, so I've had plenty of experience listening to massed, and solo, strings live. But I have NOT had this problem live, as others in the thread have asserted. It's curious, though, that recorded SOLO violins don't seem to suffer from this problem, although the quality of the original recording--as always!--is extremely important. Hilary Hahn's first Bach sonatas and partitas CD, for instance, is a gold standard for me: a test record for the proper, silky and rich sound of a solo violin. I have a theory, but it's probably b.s. Violinists all play with vibrato, which constantly, and kind of randomly, varies the tone slightly. With a solo performance, this can be captured unproblematically. But with an entire violin section, everyone is employing vibrato in different ways. Thus, the massed tone of a violin section is extremely complex, not just at the physics level, but even audibly: each instrument is actually playing slightly above or slightly below the given pitch at any given time. Now, for some reason, the ear can resolve this in a live performance (or so I have found, anyway). But perhaps, recording and reproducing this micro-chaos is a significant strain on the technology.... FWIW, the DGG SACD called "Credo," with the Arvo Pärt composition of that title along with two solo piano pieces (including Beethoven's "Tempest" sonata) and the Beethoven Choral Fantasy, gets the sound of an orchestra's massed violins about as right as anything I've heard. The performances (Grimaud, Salonen) are also outstanding. |
frogman:Shostokovich,Sym.No 5,Bernstein,N.Y.Phil. original pressing,ca 1960. Same recording, new pressing [very thin vinyl},same recording CD.All 3 rough, gritty strings. Rest of orch.clear,open spacious. Mozart piano concertos,Ashkenazy,Philharmonia,London ffrr [Decca],vinyl, recorded 1987.Open,spacious,brillant,clear piano,gritty strings.In this recording, when the strings are played hard, they sound almost silky:when played medium to soft, they have this spurious, sandpapery grit attached to them, like someone clearing his throat.In one section, the strings are following lightly behind the piano and they sound congested. |
pwerahera:If you google PROTON D1200, you will see that it can deliver several hundred watts per channel. there is a tube demo showing how much power it is capable of.From the Owners manual at: https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/proton/d-1200.shtml Specifications:Rated power 100 W per channel at 8 Ohm Clipping power: 110 watts per channel into 8 Ohm (stereo), 175 W per channel at 4 Ohm and 220 W at 2 Ohm But your speakers are not very efficient at 86 dB and has an impedance of 4 ohms. Hence, you need an amp that puts at least 400 W at 4 Ohms. Try an amp that can deliver 200 W at 8 Ohm, 400 W at 4 Ohm. Better if it can deliver 800 W at 2 Ohms.These are rated power, NOT clipping or dynamic power. |
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