Pure Audio Project open baffle speakers

I have a set of PAP Trio with Horn 1 midrange. They replaced a set of B&W 803Ds. Here are my impressions:

I am using the Leonides XO. Have very mixed feelings about this XO. It is a first order XO and does little to roll off either the bass drivers or the Horn 1 midrange. The Horn 1 is good down to 300 Hz or so, and the bass drivers go all the way up to 1500 to 2K Hz (where they have a nasty peak). So there is a large area in the lower midrange where both the Horn 1 and the bass drivers are active. I added an RC network to the bass drivers to try to attenuate the upper midrange somewhat, and it works after a fashion but is not perfect. The speaker sounds great on Jazz but is trying for compressed rock. Am in the process of looking at an active XO system so I can better roll off the horn and the bass drivers at about 800 Hz.

Compared to the B&Ws, the imaging and sound stage depth is vastly better. Even with the frequency response issues, these have much better upper midrange (not as harsh and they don't "beam" like the 803s did). Bass is quite good compared to the B&Ws, which surprised me.

I also have the Voxative drivers which I have yet to try, and may swap these for the horn. The horns use Beyma Spanish made drivers and are incredibly efficient, at 108 dB/Watt. May also take a look at the ESS drivers as these are quite inexpensive at the moment.

I do have to comment on the CS from this company. Ze'ev is quite responsive until he has your money, thereafter not so much. His business model is to drop ship the components from all over the world, so the user has to assemble and test the speaker. We had a number of QC problems (the initial shipment of woofers were damaged by the manufacturer in packaging) and many of the parts were quite late in delivery.

So for me these are a work in progress, which I don't mind so much as I am a tweaker. I think they have real potential if the frequency response aberrations can be brought under control.  

Imo, it's not advantageous to lower the mid-bass as you will make the speaker sound smaller.  Try working with different resistors,  caps (I put in Mundorf oil filled for a beautiful i.provement) and the wiring. All of these are efficacious.  If you have lower end electronics you should not expect extravagance. Also, if speaker is sitting on floor, use some baffle tilt to change relative position of drivers to ear,  as this is a good way to adjust perception of balance of drivers. See my review at Dagogo.com 

douglas

Different resistors and capacitors will not change the basic design, which is that of a first order XO. This means that both the horn and bass driver will be operating (and fighting each other) in the lower mid range below 1K Hz. The Eminence OB-A15neo drivers frequency response continuously rises to its peak at 1200 hz, which is very noticeable particularly because the XO does not roll this driver off well before this. When summed with the Beyma compression horn driver (good for below 300 Hz), the lower mid range emphasis is unmistakable. The best electronics in the world will not change this.

I  am using Parasound JC1 amps, not exactly what I would consider lower end electronics. 

Sorry to say, but maybe you chose the wrong speaker.

dhl93449, I am aware of the crossover’s parameters not changing, and I have no interest in debating my recommendations. I have used all the recommendations I mentioned, and I think you are shortchanging your experience regardless if you do not try them. I don’t recommend insipid and ineffectual changes.

You have a very fine amp, yet there is no way to determine whether sonically it is an excellent match with the PAP-Horn1 aside from comparison to other amps. The speaker will change sound fundamentally, despite the crossover not being changed, also in the region you discuss, from the simple insertion of a different amp. I have used many amps on the PAP-Horn1, and this is a fundamental way of altering the speaker’s performance, simply by change of amp.

Again, I know that the crossover will not change, but for instance, an amp that causes the speaker to emphasize more the top end, most often by having shallower or "lighter" bass, may cause the speaker to sound more balanced to you, as the perception is that there is relatively less emphasis on the mid-bass. I also make such changes with other speakers, such as the Vapor Audio Joule White. You may agree or disagree, but that is simply another point I offer.

I also regularly adjust the holistic sound of speakers by swapping interconnects and speaker cables, as well as power cords. While these do not change the crossover, they change the speaker’s holistic sound, and the perception of an emphasis in one part of the spectrum can be addressed pretty well, though not always perfectly. If you disagree, then we’ll simply accept that the other is at odds and have to let that go.

Based on your reply, I suspect you believe that the only worthwhile solution would be to manipulate the crossover, and if so, then I strongly recommend you consider the PAP-C1 Active Crossover for the speakers. I reviewed it for Dagogo.com, and the bonus for you - as you are familiar with crossovers and filters, is that the PAP-C1 allows for adjustment of both level and filter slope for each driver. This, I suspect, would be a game changer for you and allow you to contour the drivers precisely as you wish. Take a look at the Low and High Pass filter curves on the website. I would put a link to it here, but the moderators seem to restrict my use of links because I am a reviewer. It’s easy enough to find at the website. Obviously, then, as a dummy board is used in place of the crossover, the recommendation of replacing caps or resisters would not be in play, but the "internal" wiring and speaker’s baffle slope would still be worthwhile changes. BTW, with the active X-over and four channels of amps the speaker had a very nice bump in dynamics. 

Now, if you don’t like any of these suggestions, you’re on your own! :)