So What Is Real?


There is a newsletter I subscribe to because the guy seems to talk about reality and not what some sales dude wants to sell you. mwaldrep@aixrecords.com   Now the funny thing to me is that all these cable specialists of high dollar remedies for flawed playback are somehow going to magically change what you hear and will then rise above the abilities of the music file limitations and recording engineers. A dumb wire that is used to create the hi-res recordings so sought after is not somehow suitable for the playback of the same. The following is from Waldreps newsletter and I fully agree. I love this guy and he is a light shining through all the smoke and mirror BS of high end audio. I confess I too am a cable denier and incapable of hearing " further uptick in micro-dynamic jump " but love the delicious word salad these guys create to try to describe something that is not there. I can see the cable guy sitting there with his buddy. Wow did you hear that uptick in micro-dynamics!!  You just know that's how he would talk, right?
  As an aside here how does one become a professional listener? What is the criteria for attaining this lofty goal? How do you know when you have arrived and what governing authority sets down the requirements for such a thing so you know  you are not deceiving yourself and others? Is it a nebulous category that is assigned to you when you spend a certain level of money or do you have verifiable and provable abilities above the norm as recognized by a large group of people including recording industry engineers, professional sound installers and high end audio system owners? In other words anyone but cable sellers?

  The following is from "Dr. AIX Post for January 25, 2020"

 " Cable Nonsense

What is it that Art Linkletter used to say? Kids say the darndest things. Well, it seems some FB audio group administrators, audiophiles, high-end audio salespersons, audiophile society officials, and manufacturers also say things that make little or no sense when talking or posting about cables.

I usually steer clear of FB posts or online magazines that promote high-end audio cables. It's just never safe to present with science, established electrical engineering theory and practice, or objectiveness when cables are concerned. A recent exchange on a familiar FB audio group page resulted in a member calling me a "cable denier" because I advocated for science and physics in evaluating power cords.

The thread basically dismissed my comments because I'm a member of the professional audio engineering community. Audio equipment salespeople, FB administrators, high-end audio marketing managers, and the general audio buying public are claimed to be better and more reliable sources of information when it comes to recommending expensive accessories and cables. According to the gentleman below, they are capable of listening in ways that audio professionals can not.

One commenter wrote:

"Mark is a pro and speaks just like one, but he is not a professional LISTENER, like you (Writer's NOTE: the guy offering the ultra expensive power cords), I and so many others in the high-end industry. Interesting is that most so-called experts are also naysayers who work in the recording industry, not in the high-end industry."

What does this statement actually claim? That professional audio engineers and producers do not know how to listen? That spending one's professional life in front of speakers in a control room doesn't require listening?Maybe...just maybe...the engineers responsible for producing the recordings that are played back in these guys high-end systems are correct in their assessment of power cords and expensive USB/Ethernet cables. Image that!

Can you really trust a gentlemen that just launched a new cable company that offers a 6-foot power cord for $3150? Oh and this person also believes that cables are directional! BTW They are not.

Here's a couple of additional comments...

"Cables can make a difference. I’m glad I can hear those differences it truly enhances the experience. I have been a dedicated audiophile and in the industry for over 45 years and have been able to identify those differences since my first experience with Smog Lifters in the 70’s. I search for and usually discover great products that deserve special attention by people looking for the last bit of resolution and coherency. I’m truly sorry for those that wouldn’t hear the difference."

Here's a comment from an individual that swapped a normal Ethernet cable for an expensive one.

"...the Vodka seemed to remove a layer of film for superior textural reveal. There was also a shade more tonal depth and recording space ‘air’. Most noticeable of all was a further uptick in micro-dynamic jump."

I don't know about you but I cringe when I hear people talk about audio in such terms. And this after listening to a commercial album and then stopping, swapping the cable and relistening. It's unbelievable.

I could pull quotes from cable reviews all afternoon but I think you get the point. When anyone starts spewing nonsense about power cords, digital interconnects, or network cables, run away. Keep your wallet in your pocket and unsubscribe from that group or online magazine. Their motivations are suspect. They either want to sell you something (usually at very high cost) or are dependent on advertising dollars from the companies they write about or the individuals they interview.

"
mahlman
The OP has the dubious honor of becoming the Peter Aczel of the 21st century. Why the obsession with other people’s money? This site used to be help and share, not trash and swear. God forbid those of us having FUN In this hobby.
"Sorry, dude, but Monster Cable were never high end."
Until I bought them and connected them between an Onkyo receiver and Mission 761i. They stayed high end for decades, even after those two were long gone.
"Lets look at things logically as I am sure that would appeal to you. Monster cables were high end back then but did not stay with Klipsch long. Would you care to say why? ..."
               I have no idea.  Nor will I guess.

 "... The guy that designed the speakers did not use this fru fru stuff on playback in his sound lab. Would you care to say why? ..."
               Same answer as above

  "...True I am not a Klipsch spokesman but I know what I have seen with my own eyes and if fancy wiring was successful in Klipsch eyes would they have ever stopped it? ..."

Klipsch didn't stop it.  I posted a link to a Klipsch publication and a Klipsch video, both of which describe the use of "fancy wiring" in 2 of their current Heritage speakers.  They may use it in more; I don't know.
 
" ...You all are getting pissy because a sacred idol is being impugned and can't come up with one bit of actual scientific evidence to bolster all the grandiose assertions made.... "

I can't speak for others, but if presenting facts about current Klipsch speakers  is getting "pissy" then color me "pissy."  Nor have I made any grandiose assertions.

" ... Cable cookers, directional wiring, $60,000 for 9' of wire per channel + the secret box with knobs on it and you all go for this stuff. I think I am out of here and let the strange huddle together in defense of each other. ..."

 Again; I was making a point, with facts, about an incorrect, speculative post you made about Klipsch speakers.  Nothing more.

As for cabling,  I have no interest in $60K speaker cables or secret boxes. I have always sought value.  I learn as much as I can about materials and construction.  I learn as much as I can by seeking the experience of others on forums, in publications and via personal interaction.  Then by trial.  If I don't like the way they sound, I return or sell them.    

As far as using zip cord, I think I was 17.  It didn't take long to ditch it.


   
That strikes me that the cable believers they are that because they have heard the difference.
The cable nay sayers have not heard the difference in cables.

Both are right but why?

I have been in countless of hi-fi shows there I have attended cable demonstrations. Of power cable and also another with speaker cables. (I did learn that there is apparently shielded speaker cables..)

So the prof is in the pudding. 🎵
But if we try to eat the pudding in an environment like under water in the ocean. We would all think that different puddings taste the same (salty water). But in air the taste difference is there clearly. And it is the same puddings that we tasted under water.

The same goes for the smaller impacts like amps, speakers, source and so on. But the bigger percentage impact is the environment like the acoustic properties of the room. That is ~≥50% of the sound! So it is not ONLY the brain and ear auditorium that differs on us all it is also we have different opinions on exactly the same gears.

But those that has had all the stars aligned with the right treated room, resolving gear, sonically divergent cables and so on. Has heard a difference in cables are cables believers. We hear like in this thread nay sayers going to believing in cables. But we seldom hear the other way around.

Yes, we (believers) have also heard no differences in many cases. But if that were the room, system, sonically same cables that were compared.. But I have also in fact put in in my system many years ago a pair of RCA cables that on paper should be okay with the right "bells and whistles". I was so disappointed that I took a scissor and destroyed them immediately so that nobody else/I should be using them by mistake in the future. (You know when you hook up a new peace of gear and you reach for RCA cables at hand.. I did not want to risk to take that pair!)

Why should manufacturer make A and B comparisons in high end shows for audiophiles. If there were no differences? Would they cheat and put the whole company at risk?