mahgister,
I am surprised that you are less wise than normal.... :)For real?
So What Is Real?
There is a newsletter I subscribe to because the guy seems to talk about reality and not what some sales dude wants to sell you. mwaldrep@aixrecords.com Now the funny thing to me is that all these cable specialists of high dollar remedies for flawed playback are somehow going to magically change what you hear and will then rise above the abilities of the music file limitations and recording engineers. A dumb wire that is used to create the hi-res recordings so sought after is not somehow suitable for the playback of the same. The following is from Waldreps newsletter and I fully agree. I love this guy and he is a light shining through all the smoke and mirror BS of high end audio. I confess I too am a cable denier and incapable of hearing "
further uptick in micro-dynamic jump
" but love the delicious word salad these guys create to try to describe something that is not there. I can see the cable guy sitting there with his buddy. Wow did you hear that uptick in micro-dynamics!! You just know that's how he would talk, right?
As an aside here how does one become a professional listener? What is the criteria for attaining this lofty goal? How do you know when you have arrived and what governing authority sets down the requirements for such a thing so you know you are not deceiving yourself and others? Is it a nebulous category that is assigned to you when you spend a certain level of money or do you have verifiable and provable abilities above the norm as recognized by a large group of people including recording industry engineers, professional sound installers and high end audio system owners? In other words anyone but cable sellers?
The following is from "Dr. AIX Post for January 25, 2020"
" Cable Nonsense
As an aside here how does one become a professional listener? What is the criteria for attaining this lofty goal? How do you know when you have arrived and what governing authority sets down the requirements for such a thing so you know you are not deceiving yourself and others? Is it a nebulous category that is assigned to you when you spend a certain level of money or do you have verifiable and provable abilities above the norm as recognized by a large group of people including recording industry engineers, professional sound installers and high end audio system owners? In other words anyone but cable sellers?
The following is from "Dr. AIX Post for January 25, 2020"
" Cable Nonsense
What is it that Art Linkletter used to say? Kids say the darndest things. Well, it seems some FB audio group administrators, audiophiles, high-end audio salespersons, audiophile society officials, and manufacturers also say things that make little or no sense when talking or posting about cables.
I usually steer clear of FB posts or online magazines that promote high-end audio cables. It's just never safe to present with science, established electrical engineering theory and practice, or objectiveness when cables are concerned. A recent exchange on a familiar FB audio group page resulted in a member calling me a "cable denier" because I advocated for science and physics in evaluating power cords.
The thread basically dismissed my comments because I'm a member of the professional audio engineering community. Audio equipment salespeople, FB administrators, high-end audio marketing managers, and the general audio buying public are claimed to be better and more reliable sources of information when it comes to recommending expensive accessories and cables. According to the gentleman below, they are capable of listening in ways that audio professionals can not.
One commenter wrote:
"Mark is a pro and speaks just like one, but he is not a professional LISTENER, like you (Writer's NOTE: the guy offering the ultra expensive power cords), I and so many others in the high-end industry. Interesting is that most so-called experts are also naysayers who work in the recording industry, not in the high-end industry."
What does this statement actually claim? That professional audio engineers and producers do not know how to listen? That spending one's professional life in front of speakers in a control room doesn't require listening?Maybe...just maybe...the engineers responsible for producing the recordings that are played back in these guys high-end systems are correct in their assessment of power cords and expensive USB/Ethernet cables. Image that!
Can you really trust a gentlemen that just launched a new cable company that offers a 6-foot power cord for $3150? Oh and this person also believes that cables are directional! BTW They are not.
Here's a couple of additional comments...
"Cables can make a difference. I’m glad I can hear those differences it truly enhances the experience. I have been a dedicated audiophile and in the industry for over 45 years and have been able to identify those differences since my first experience with Smog Lifters in the 70’s. I search for and usually discover great products that deserve special attention by people looking for the last bit of resolution and coherency. I’m truly sorry for those that wouldn’t hear the difference."
Here's a comment from an individual that swapped a normal Ethernet cable for an expensive one.
"...the Vodka seemed to remove a layer of film for superior textural reveal. There was also a shade more tonal depth and recording space ‘air’. Most noticeable of all was a further uptick in micro-dynamic jump."
I don't know about you but I cringe when I hear people talk about audio in such terms. And this after listening to a commercial album and then stopping, swapping the cable and relistening. It's unbelievable.
I could pull quotes from cable reviews all afternoon but I think you get the point. When anyone starts spewing nonsense about power cords, digital interconnects, or network cables, run away. Keep your wallet in your pocket and unsubscribe from that group or online magazine. Their motivations are suspect. They either want to sell you something (usually at very high cost) or are dependent on advertising dollars from the companies they write about or the individuals they interview.
"Showing 22 responses by glupson
geoffkait, "...glubson is an angelfish." Stay away! "In pet stores, the freshwater angelfish is typically placed in the semiaggressive category. Some tetras and barbs are compatible with angelfish, but ones small enough to fit in the mouth of the angelfish may be eaten. Generous portions of food should be available so the angelfish do not get hungry and turn on their tank mates" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterophyllum |
"Between glupson and geoffkait, I dont know who is the shark and who is the remora anymore"I am more of a whale while geoffkait it more of a kid with orange inflatable floating device with a smiling duck face on it. One day, he will have my picture on the wall, but first he has to learn how to swim with the big boys. |
LPs are NOT OUTDATED TECHNOLOGY!They are still around, but, if the number of LP-filled boxes on the curbs of some cities are anything to go by, many LP owners do feel it is outdated. So does public library that does not take LP donations anymore. They still take CDs. "...they are a very significant platform for reproducing music for serious listeners"What exactly are "serious listeners"? These days, it may be iPhone with AirPods Pro. Check the numbers of those sold and compare to the number of turntables, or records, sold. Those are some serious discrepancies, I am afraid. |
But he became obsessed with this "hobby" and completely lost the ability to comprehend the meaning of value (quality divided by price).Nothing wrong with that. The man has time, likes it, can afford it, and enjoys it. Along the way, he provides job and food on the table for a few families. Win-win. I wouldn't do it to such an extent, but no harm was done in this story. |
fleschler, I apologize for not getting the numbers right. It was eight or nine different numbers (including 10X-30X) mentioned in the post so I lost track what related to what and what was saved and how. In any case, it is an impressive endeavor to go through with the room. Most of the people would probably split $165000 between modifying an existing room and acquiring more expensive equipment although your approach is way more interesting. Why no windows? If I understood it correctly, and I might have missed it again, you would need artifical light and air flow all the time. That could be a problem in the long run, or during longer listening sessions. Is there an issue with that? |
"...the sound per se is completely vulnerable to things that are not even remotely connected to the audio system"Have a haircut, use Afrin. I have been preaching that from time to time and it falls on deaf ears. Deaf ears that do notice audible differences in color of the few-milimeter long fuse or an oversized fridge magnet thrown in the hole in the wall. Someone should standardize haircuts, at least, before arguing about minutia of sound. |
Looking at Grover Huffman's website, it really does not seem that cables are as obscenely priced as some on the market. They seem to be priced just right for "it may be worth trying". If they are truly that good, they may be a bargain. Unfortunately, there are no clear pictures of finished cables to get the idea how they would look in the room. |
fleschler, "I don’t know if it works that way but his cables beat out most of the high end SOTA sold at 10X-30X his prices."Does he provide you with those 10X-30X his prices cables for comparison or you buy them yourself? On a side note, $7500 for cables is not exactly cheap. They may be good, but "affordable" they are not. |
"I suppose mostly you have mid-fi systems with insufficient resolution to allow differences to be heard."You could not be more wrong. Most of us have equipment with high resolution which makes us enjoy garbage that modern engineers produce and mix for our trash speakers. It is all about synergy. Once you realize that Bose wireless speaker actually is a revolutionary step ahead of your most recent fabulous cables, you will have arrived to the world of true audiophiles and connoisseurs of advanced technology. |
asvjerry, Now, I had recently seen a comment/claim/or? of one, inferring that they had ’liquid metal cables’....!?...*huh?*I believe there are two contributors to audiogon who are closely involved with it so they may chime in. If not, search for Teo Audio cables on the Internet and you may find more information there. When it comes to metals and room temperature, maybe more practical question would be what is considered "liquid". Periodic table is full of metals (90, or so, if I remember correctly) and there may be a few that are not as liquidy as mercury, but are still not fully solid at room temperature. Especially if you apply different rules/definition than what all of us have learned once upon a time. I am not going to look it up now, but definition of "liquid" may be your answer. |
"So has anyone changed their mind yet about cables?"I have not changed my mind and I would not blink if I had to go back to the lamp cord I had used for many years, but just last week I did notice something. I swapped stock cables from two different sets of earphones. I do not know what the actual build difference is, except that one is less pliable than the other one which I suspect is due to thicker plastic "jacket". Well, I still believe I did hear the difference every time, which is five or six times in a row. I did it with both sets of earphones, too. Not blinded, not a large sample, no nothing, just a very primitive curiosity. It could have easily been my bias which, in case I had it, I am not sure which way it would lean and why. Much more importantly, as much as I think there was a difference, I am sure that the difference was just a difference and not anything "better". No jaw-dropping soundstage that opened to the next block, no deeper lows, no darker blacks, no musicians walking in the room. I used to live happily with my lamp cord and now I am perfectly fine with whatever stock cable came with these earphones. Life is too short to obsess over cables and to conduct real meaningful comparison tests. |